Interested in the Bush SRP31.

[Anddrew]

I am sorry Edward you are strugglingwith this thread imagine what it is like been half blind typing asking politely questions to get experienced feedback I have never mentioned in my first post about later Bush SRP31s .Like the SRP31D i did ask what was the difference in my last post of my two bush SRP31S early ones 1957 and 1959 the latter has the Garrad deck 210.and also the SRP31C does have the same deck .so back to why i asked i have tried my best to work around this forum seen many posts some go way off topic i do not think i have .Reason i ask questions is some have commented guessing i may have a SRP31D no i do not .

i would like someone please to reply what is the early SRP31S ability with cart s besides BSR carts surely if they made them to have the old crystal cart gc8s when they became old and worn out other carts had to be used .all i seem to be getting is BSR seems to be the only carts suitable on a Bush SRP31 early with a Garrad deck of RC121 MK2 1957 to my other Bush with 210 Garrad deck both had originally the old crystal GC8 carts . I have asked a experienced 40 years of restoring and repairing players and he says many can be fitted to the Garrad 210 deck headshell. Ido not have the Bush SRP312C with Autoslim .

In post here all i have seen is replies about BSR which are obsolete unavailable so that will not help me .if i am to get my second Bush player working i need to have a cart fitted.the broken BSR wont be repairable.so i joined this forum hoping experienced enthusiastic record player enthusiasts would help. The ronnette cart it went back .so i am back to no cart at all. I have tried to read on the net learn as much as i can but this forum will have many people with experience i have counted 3 kind members who have kindly posted on this thread opinions have all been different .It seems if someone was to Kindly who loveds Bush SRP31S they may post a photo explain what is going to be a difference with a certain cart on a old bush 1957 to the later SRP31C not SRP31D i no this does not have Garrad decks.

[Anddrew]

I have been trying to type and it seems my post is getting a gremlin, it is posting a short post not my full typing. I initially posted about the cart I desperately need to get the right cart for my second Bush SRP31.It seems all I have to go by the replies is BSR carts but these are obsolete.

Regarding all Bush models I like the early ones I have two as I have previously explained. What is the difference of these to the SRP31C? Why did I read it appeared an improved model? I have a early SRP31C it needs servicing electrically checking and repairing so I cannot see what difference apart from cosmetic and colour and it still has a Garrad 210 deck not an Autoslim. So what cart should I buy and not sure where to get them from. I have tried eBay and four companies which you are all aware of on this forum.

Any more suggestions on my post?

[Audio1950]

I am reluctant to express an opinion in case it muddies the water even further, but here goes anyway. Cartridges in general are getting harder and harder to find. but of those that are available, the BSRs have to be the easiest to fit a stylus to, providing you get the correct one. The various BSR flip-under styli may look the same. but the back ends where the metal clip holds them are different sizes. You need the specific stylus to fit your cartridge. (whatever that will be) When you have got it, don't try lifting the clip, you will bend it permanently. Just hold the white flag between two fingers, slide the very end under the clip, then twist the flag and the stylus will seat itself. Just be sure that the stylus is sitting between the two little plastic ears the stick out of the cartridge. I do appreciate the difficulties of part-sightedness, but maybe a jewellers loupe, which is held in one eye might help? Now, the difference (cosmetically)between the SRP31 and the "C" is that the SRP31 had the brown and cream case and the Garrard RC121Mk2 changer. I don't recall seeing one with a 210 deck. The "C" had the two-tone grey case and was fitted with the 210 changer, then later the "Autoslim" The "D" does not concern us.

Barry

[Anddrew]

Thankyou for your reply Barry, you have not muddied the water, so my little knowledge on these models seems i am correct.I have two old Bush SRP31 .One is a early model Bush 1957-1958 SRP31 in brown and cream with a RC121MK2 deck Garrad changer .Now comes the suprise i have a Bush SRP31 fitted with a 210 deck autochanger probably late fifties . I know this is original because i have seen many of these for sale with a 210 fitted, then i realise the appearance of a SRP31C is finished in grey .so Bush changed there brown cream SRP31 to a 210 Garrard changer, probably sometime in 1958 when the bush SRP31 RC121MK2 was discontinued.

Now to the cartridge i did try copying exact a replacement stylus to my broken BSRX5H, Also i bought new stylus for my other Bush fitted with a BSR cart X5M .both have different numbers .The X5H came with ST 15D white plastic .The BSRX5M is grey plastic ST10 .I copied both replacements with what was fitted in the Garrad headshell.If these are wrong then the previous owners have fitted wrong styluses. If i had known you push under and twist maybe i would not have broke the metal clip on the BSRX5H. all i tried to do which was a knightmare was push under the clip,.Now that is why it was difficult and put me off these BSR carts and styluses.

now to what do i do ,where and what do i buy to replace the broken cartridge because maybe so kind forum member may actually tell me where to buy carts from. because i dont seem to be in luck do i.

I do appreciate everything and all what people have posted so far.

[Gabe001]

Try asking for one in the request section of this forum

[john600601]

I've followed this thread and also a similar one on the Vintage record player facebook group (I assume also by the o/p), so to clarify firstly with the Bush Record Players, the SRP31 (brown) had the RC series deck first then later examples had the 210. Then the SRP31 was superceded by the SRP31C which initially had the 210, then latterly the Autoslim deck with detachable headshell, then finally came the SRP31D with blue BSR changer unit and better ECL86 valve amplifier. With regards to the cartridges, I think the X5 series is one of, if not, THE, easiest to change stylus, but I have occassionally had them where the clip is very very tight, so maybe the O/P just has a bad example, as usually they clip in no problem. An Acos GP91/BSR TC8/Sonotone/new Chinese are going to be more fiddly to change the stylus on than the BSR X5M or H. I cannot think of an easier choice. And as someone posted above, given the long life of a diamond stylus you may only have to renew it every four or five years.
BSR X5M will take ST12 (LP/78), ST14 (LP diamond/78) ST15 (double LP), ST19 or ST22 (both single LP tips) and the X5H takes ST8 (LP/45), ST9 (diamond LP/78), ST10 (double LP) or ST23 (single LP tip). Hope this offers some clarification. Sorry if I've gone over old ground but the thread seemed to be becoming convoluted. Hope it helps.

[Audio1950]

I think it will be almost impossible to find a BSR mono cartridge, they all seem to have been discontinued. Given your eyesight problem, why not go for one of the new Chinese replacement cartridges? Fitting a stylus to these is simplicity itself, even easier than the BSRs. The disadvantages (there had to be some!) are that you can't play 78s,(yes I know there are flip-under versions available, but the replacement stylus availability is questionable) plus they are stereo, which means that the two channels will have to be paralleled, which is a fiddling job and therefore not something you would happily take on. However if some kind member would be prepared to do this for you, I'm prepared to send you the cartridge and mounting bracket in it's original packaging, unused and free of charge. Let's wait and see!

Barry

[Anddrew]

Many thanks for all who have kindly replied on this thread i do not think it has gone really off topic .discussions are the best way to try to ask questions and even bring in thoughts .I will not buy anything Chinese it is simply a place i feel i do not want to give any money spending or business.I am a near 60 year old proud British and always love our British items .Even if i have to purchase old new stock i feel happier doing things this way we all act differently and make personal choices in life .I have the BSRX5M so all i need to do is be careful fitting styluses next time the BSRX5H is no good so i will have to replace it .Thanks to Barry i now no you push and twist and it should fit.

Thankyou also to John for the identifying the correct and required ST diamond stylus types to fit the BSR carts. These seem to be readily available in a pinnicle brand diamond stylus which i did buy new old stock. so now to search again for another cartridge .

[Edward Huggins]

Whilst we will all respect your Patriotism, do bear in mind that none of these items are now made in the UK.
Whilst you can buy NOS, not all of these will have been made in the UK and also these items may be over 50 years old.
When searching for a new cartridge it is the BSR X5M you need, not the BSR X5H. If you can't find one, then source a BSR SC11M or a BSR SC12H - but these will be Stereo cartridges and so will need both channels bridging by someone who can help you do tgids.
Forgive me foe repeating myself as I know that I have explained this all to you before....

[Audio1950]

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

When searching for a new cartridge it is the BSR X5M you need, not the BSR X5H.

The X5M is the one that he has!

Barry

[Anddrew]

The bush SRP31 1959 210 deck finally came back seems like its been a nightmare from hell. been half blind is no fun trying to be independant and do think myself it would have been easier if i was a experienced eletronics person but i am sadly not but have been learning . but this thread may seem just ordinary to some people about a old bush and cart advice but having faith in electronic experts does not mean honesty has been my journey with a repairer .
After worrying about the cartridge he from the start i came on here took advice and listened. I even did enquiries on two more websites who repair record players they said BSRX5M.On friday i asked the guy to to fit only a BSRX5M doing the service and work. Guess what because i am half blind does not mean i am stupid ,i could see after carefully releasing the clip carefully this evening after he had gone he did not fit what i said or asked for, so i now have a BSRSX6M fitted not happy at all my other bush to be repaired sounds better with a BSRX5M fitted in its headshell ,i got it out while he was here and i said this sounds better. by testing my old one from my older bush srp31 1957 with the older RC121 mk2 deck .Well he assured me he had fitted a new BSRX5M cart plus the ST15 stylus apparently he said they all sound different. yes stylus ST15 correct not the cart what i specifically asked for was it .
So i wont really no if i have had a good service regarding sound, parts changed with selinium rectifier capacitors , tweeter and other things which are like electrodes deck serviced fully set up and degreased re greased. apparently i did ask about the plessey but it works he said may be the old saying till broke dont fix it .so now i am with a serviced bush with a cart not what everyone has adviced me to get hold of and have fitted he did try a BSRSC11 it sounded poor before he fitted the BSR SX6M what is what i am stuck with .Any comments please feel free.

[ben]

The X5M is a medium to high output cartridge (400mV) while the SX6M is a medium output (280mV) so you will notice some lack of volume. I wonder if the two stereo channels were bridged for mono on that SX6M?

The problem is that these BSR X5 and X6 crystal carts are around 50 years old, and many have suffered due to age. This may explain your dissatisfaction with the sound. You say you don't want to buy Chinese stuff. Well, pretty much everything you buy these days is made there, good and bad, from phones to kitchenware, so good luck with that! I recommend the Chuo Denshi clone JP type ceramic carts, which being newer, have better tracking ability and sound and cost less than ten pounds. They are available from UK sellers.

In any case, getting back to your recent repair, if you are not happy with work you paid for, why not take it up with the technician concerned?

[Edward Huggins]

I completely agree with Ben's comment above. The OP's disappointment may well be the result of a lower output and "partial sound" is because only one channel of the (full-stereo) BSR SX6M cartridge is connected. Maybe the OP might get a second opinion from a Forum Member in West Yorkshire?

[john600601]

When I service these Bush players I replace the rectifier with a 1n4007 diode + resistor, I replace a hunts cap which is situated on the chassis between the treble and bass controls and the yellow/black plessey capacitor as a matter of habit. The speaker can be a weak point on these and a replacement 6x4 can make a lot of difference as some of the originals can no longer handle the bass and sound rough. I do not usually spend a lot of time on the tweeter which was dropped on the later SRP41/51. These cartridges are hard to get now, it may be a case of fitting what's available and is working, but if the SX6M is fitted and you are missing out on the "vocals" (i.e. some vocals sound in the background) then the two + wires need joining on the tag strip (the two - should be joined from the factory). You said you asked the guy to fit a BSR X5M but where would he have got this obsolete cartridge from? In fairness he perhaps thought the SX6M is just the stereo version of the X5M which is a natural assumption to make (the output is lower but many may not realise that). I have a Bush SRP31C with two headshells, one has the original mono Garrard cartridge and the other has an SC12H which has lower volume but still ample volume and it sounds fine too. I wonder if all this swapping cartridges is a result that infact the amp is not properly serviced as with a push pull amp I'd have thought all of these cartridges would have been sufficient.

[Anddrew]

Many Thanks for all the recent replies from everyone, with taking notice of quite a few members comments on here all the way through this thread that is why i asked the guy to fit a BSR X5M.
If you all remember Early on this thread is about Bush SRP31s . Early ones in particular not the SRP31D version .
you put your faith in electronically minded experienced people you listen you take advice.I do not recall anyone saying apart from Edward any alternatives these were alternatives SC11 BSR and BSR SC12 Or cheap chinese which i am sorry i have personal feelings about CHINA dont ask .
I think if this country made things even reprodution , availablity would be easier maybe more expensive but certainly less stressful but we do not live in a easy world when trying to purchase vintage in particular components.

maybe experienced members electronic experts cannot give suitable cartridges names ,now for old vintage record players because their is no stock anywhere.,it seems to thrive in the Dansette world cartys for mono are available and yes i even have a ful fi BSR cart but i cannot play stereo records with this fitted why do you think i tried the ronettes which they went back .Which leaves not experienced people like me asking and trying to get a solution.
the Bush player after this mornings conversation with the guy who serviced it and repaired it produces sound not weak and it will turn up but like someone said it may lack something on certain reproductions playing vinyl 60s vinyl.
he assured me something has been done to take the requirment for this BSRSX6M.SoO today i will try a 1970 7 inch single record not mono but a stereo recording to seeif the clarity is any better with later recordings. and yes it will be mono sound
If anyone on here knows of such a suitable cart in existance or maybe one i should scour the net for , preferably non Chinese cart.This which simply goes onto two posts mono red wire ,black wire ,you can play a stereo 7 inch record please feel free to pass on your thoughts.
Under the headshell on the cart we have 4 wires attached to the cart red green white and black . It originally was sent away with a old GC8 crystal which did work but only plays mono records, would damage my 7inch stereo singles so it had to be taken off .He said when this was on the volume was great ,guess it would sound better and its how it was made for back then .
Paul i cannot tell you the electronic changes which have been done still waiting for a receipt and print out of work done which he said he will send me .But i have tried to previously list what has been done was changed but he did not change the plessey some do i guess some do not. please feel free to comment .

[john600601]

Until a few years ago I never changed the Plessey, I do now as a matter of course, (as I do with wax caps etc) but I highly doubt this is what's causing you any problems. The problem with manufacturing in this country is there just isn't the demand for a cartridge such as the X5M and I am fairly sure the only reason China manufactures the 'red & black' cartridges are because that is what is fitted to the millions of repro players that are sold today worldwide, they won't be making them with the thought anyone is using them on vintage equipment. With regards to the "earlier version" of Bush, despite cosmetic & deck changes the 2 x ECL83 amp was used throughout this range of players until superceded by the 2 x ECL86 on the SRP31D. I'd perhaps wait for your print out of work done and see what it says. Have you paid a lot? With regards to original suitable cartridges such as X5M, SC12H, the only way you will get these is off a well known auction site second hand or to break an existing player for parts. Obviously a restorer of many years may have a limited stash left.

[Sideband]

The other problem with crystal cartridges is that they deteriorate with age whether used or not. The crystal absorbs moisture over the years and just disintegrates. Even if you find one, chances are it won't be any good or it won't work very well or for long.

[Anddrew]

Thankyou for posting regarding the crystal carts breaking down, this i have learnt over the past 4 weeks so it is well retained i thought the BSR were ceramic .I guess also buying old stock from anywhere or anyone it depends where it has been stored.

John i dare not but the figure on here how much the service has cost,me fair i guess you are talking labour and time and some parts . But i got ripped off purchasing and paying for the Bush SRP31 1959 off a auction site .It has got what i have learned the usual , Bush ageing faults ,these been of tired deck idler wheel speed control old cart, volume playable but tired it worked but not like it should .
where do you buy a old vintage Bush from?? they are not advertised people restore and sell online , yes a auction site. Is everyone truthful no. It is in good cosmetic condition .But it was not as stated in the description listing which was full working sounds great etc etc I guess you have heard that all before.so i decided it deserved to be checked over for safety, serviced any parts requiring replacing to bereplaced.

my biggest obstocle has always been the replacement of a cartridge without repeating old ground but i look at this with experience and learning even though at times a tad stressful, Maybe if their had been more choice of carts and members on here had private messaged me someone might have known someone who sells old stock .

My saying is you can buy modern stuff and this can be totally rubbish, poorly made and does not do what it says on the tin. i have even read on here about modern record players made in China not a wise investment putting that poltely.so yes i like BRITISH made things from the past .So i am not angry about old appliances or components ,more the lack of honesty bugs me more.
I have come back from trying a 1970s 1976 7 inch single and a stereo record playing in mono is no worse to my ears i have volume bass and treble but it lacks something and my other cart and stylus on my older bush sounds far clearer better . so maybe their is some problem with the cart maybe aging a bit like us all . It is certainly no where near as bad when i tried the stereo compatable Ronette cartridge .

If i was to have a FuL FI TC8M BSR genuine cart in a plastic case red white black box even instructions inside ,never used If fitted into a needing repair Garrad headshell would this sound clearer and louder. The headshell needs a solder on the red wire so a connector fitting ,one came off on gentle removal of a cart which was no good. Iknow i cannot play stereo 45s records with this but i guess the tracking will be heavier so that may mess up again .Because this BSRSX6M will track lighter. Just a thought if it wont work nothing lost no worries . It does have two new styluses and i have a spare with the old bulldog on the packaging . Anybody else like to comment on this .

[john600601]

I'm not certain the TC8 bracket will fit your tonearm. Others may have a view on this. I would still say that with a properly serviced amp and good speaker that a correctly wired SX6M would be a good performer in this.

[Audio1950]

Originally Posted by john600601

I'm not certain the TC8 bracket will fit your tonearm. Others may have a view on this. I would still say that with a properly serviced amp and good speaker that a correctly wired SX6M would be a good performer in this.

The TC8 bracket will fit any removeable Garrard headshell, But I for one would be very wary of buying any old crystal cartridge, NOS or second-hand. It may never have been taken out of it's original packaging, but that won't prevent the inevitable deterioration of the crystal element.

Barry