Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

BassoonBloke · 26th Feb 2007, 3:32 pm

Hello People,

I've been thinking about the idea of using the SCART output from my Skybox via a SCART to Composite video box and then into my Aurora Standards converter for live tv. Has anyone done this, and does it work properly. I don't know if the appropriate signals are available from the Skybox.
I daresay at least one person on here has this working, so i might be asking silly questions, but i'd like to know, so i can try it myself (without killing the Skybox as my wife (Hi Shell !

) would probably do me serious damage !!).

Cheers,
Alan.

ppppenguin · 26th Feb 2007, 4:46 pm

SCART outputs normally (always?) have a composite output which can be fed directly to an Aurora. Pinout of SCART can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCART

Get a SCART to phono plugs adaptor lead and you won't even have to do any soldering.

BassoonBloke · 26th Feb 2007, 4:55 pm

Hello Jeffrey,

I was'nt sure if the composite output from a scart socket actually included sync pulses and stuff needed for the converter. It seems odd that scart has a seperate sync output as well. Maybe i've just tried to make it too complicated?

Thanks for your information on this.

All the best,
Alan.

ppppenguin · 26th Feb 2007, 5:25 pm

The separate sync output is for use with RGB components. Composite means video with syncs. For colour, composite video also includes colour information and is often known as CVBS.

Although very convenient, composite video (PAL, NTSC, SECAM) will gradually fall out use since the picture quality can never be as good as component video. Once the colour information is modulated on to a subcarrier and mixed with the luminance it's impossible to take it apart again without losing something. Or gaining something unwanted, like cross colour. The problems may be slight in some cases but they are always there. All satellite and Freeview transmissions are inherently component video.

channel405 · 26th Feb 2007, 11:02 pm

Most half decent digiboxes will provide RGB out of the scart. Very few if any digiboxes will do component as this is not used so much in Europe. Component tends to be more popular in the US. Having said that many DVD players/recorders will output component through phono sockets and RGB through the scart. I feed my Aurora from the Y component phono socket of a DVD recorder so there is no colour subcarrier degrading the signal. The DVD recorder is in turn fed RGB from a digibox (Sky box) ensuring the best possible signal path.

There is an arguement that RGB is better than component. I tend to agree. Component still needs a degree of processing, where as RGB just needs amplifying and feeding into the tube, but our American friends may disagree!

ppppenguin · 27th Feb 2007, 12:23 am

RGB is one type of component. YCbCr or YPbPr (often called YUV) are also called component. All the transmission systems use YPbPr, all the displays are inherently RGB. It can hardly matter where you convert to RGB.

Using the Y component (from YPbPr or YC) to feed an Aurora is best if you have the older multistandard unit. The much more common Aurora with modulator has a very good comb filter so the loss from feeding it with composite PAL is negligible.

bobsterkent · 28th Feb 2007, 10:33 pm

i can only get my standards converter to work on one of the dvd players i have, it wont work on the other one or the freeview box at all. any ideas?

ppppenguin · 28th Feb 2007, 10:52 pm

That's very strange. The Aurora is very tolerant of all sorts of video inputs and will probably even cope with Macrovision anti-copy signals. Any chance of looking at the video input to the Aurora with a 'scope?

Dave Moll · 28th Feb 2007, 11:25 pm

Just a thought, but could it be that they don't provide a composite output?

tubesrule · 1st Mar 2007, 12:15 am

Hi,
The decoder in the converter should lock to any standard definition interlaced video. I did notice a problem when developing the units with the output from my Denon A/V receiver when it was in it's default mode. The converter would not lock, but after further investigating, the output from the Denon was non-interlaced SD. I then set the output from my DVD player to progressive SD, and the unit would also not lock, so this is something to check for on those units. A television doesn't really care if the signal in non-interlaced, but the video decoder as programmed does.
Hope this helps.

Darryl

BassoonBloke · 1st Mar 2007, 10:08 am

Hello People,

It seems that what was a quite simple question has become a bit of an unknown !! (this was why i posed the question).
Has anyone actually tried hooking their SkyBox up to the Low cost Aurora and had it working (showing live tv in 405 line)?
I will try to get hold of a scart break-out box at the weekend and give it a go myself. I will let you know the results.

Cheers,
Alan.

jay_oldstuff · 1st Mar 2007, 8:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassoonBloke

Hello People,

It seems that what was a quite simple question has become a bit of an unknown !! (this was why i posed the question).
Has anyone actually tried hooking their SkyBox up to the Low cost Aurora and had it working (showing live tv in 405 line)?

Cheers,
Alan.

yep i do it all the time from both my SKY digibox and an old On digital freeview box, i have never encountered a problem in doing this and all i use to conect the box to the aurora is a lead i made up with a scart on one end and three phonos on the other (i'm far to stingy to buy a proper scart brakeout box). one thing i do have problems with though is a coupple of the dvd players i have here dont respond at all well, using the same cable as mentioned to connect them to the aurora the film will play but the image is washed out as though the contrast is turned right up on the tv. i now use a cheep tesco value dvd player which seems to work fine. most strange as you would expect the composite video signal to be a constant between all manufacturers.

Jay

BassoonBloke · 2nd Mar 2007, 9:47 am

Cheers Jay,

I look foreward to watching everything from now on on a 9" Bush TV12AM !!

I'm going to rig mine up at the weekend, and enjoy.

Thanks,
Alan.

p.s. i use a dvd player as a source of video, but my player has a composite video out socket as well as scart, so i use composite. Interesting that signals vary as much as they seem to considering that this is supposed to be a standard.

ppppenguin · 2nd Mar 2007, 10:23 am

If anyone's having trouble with an Aurora and can get to my place in North London I'm happy to take a look. It will be interesting to see the sorts of signals that can give trouble. Darryl has highlighted sequential (non-interlaced) signals and I have my suspicions about Macrovision. I've got the test gear here to take a really good look at the signals and spot anything strange.

bobsterkent · 3rd Mar 2007, 9:09 am

i'll take you upon that offer, would be nice to get rid of some of the stack in the corner.

taipai_royal · 29th Jun 2007, 7:13 am

I dont get a signal when using a scart to phono plugs adaptor on my Sagem digi box, but do when using the TV phonos. Any ideas?
Graham.

David_Robinson · 29th Jun 2007, 10:49 am

Sounds like you need an adaptor that goes in the right direction i.e. from SCART to phono, or one with an input/output switch.

Steve_P · 29th Jun 2007, 5:35 pm

David's right. SCART leads vary in their make up, and some of the really cheap ones don't have all the terminals connected up.

To be sure it'll work,

1: Check the menu's in the Box you wish to televise, or use the socket you use for a TV.
2: Get a SCART/PHONO adaptor. The type with ALL PINS and an IN/OUT switch.
3: Get a phono-phono lead - and a PHONO STEREO to MONO splitter.
4: Put the Scart/Phono adaptor in the Unit to be shown.
5: Use the lead and the sterep/mono adaptor to connect the Aurora.
6: Switch the aurora and the TV on.
7: If you've not got any signal, check the switch on the Scart Adaptor.

You should now get a signal on the 405 Line TV.

If you don't, then something is faulty!!!

Cheers,

Steve P

taipai_royal · 30th Jun 2007, 7:59 pm

Thanks Steve and David,
Before I buy a switched adaptor here is some more info.
My Sagem digi box is the very basic (cheap) model ITD58G with only one scart outlet. The choice of tv output settings are screen format (4.3), scaling (pan scan), and RGB output (on).
When I connect up using a scart lead and 2 way box I can get a signal for the auroa,but only if the tv is also plugged in to the other socket on the 2 way box?, it doesnt matter if the tv is on or off ?.
Graham

ppppenguin · 30th Jun 2007, 9:13 pm

Turn off the RGB output. If the output is RGB there may not be a composite PAL (CVBS) output that's needed by the Aurora.

26th Feb 2007, 3:32 pm	#1
BassoonBloke Pentode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: East London, UK. Posts: 231	Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? Hello People, I've been thinking about the idea of using the SCART output from my Skybox via a SCART to Composite video box and then into my Aurora Standards converter for live tv. Has anyone done this, and does it work properly. I don't know if the appropriate signals are available from the Skybox. I daresay at least one person on here has this working, so i might be asking silly questions, but i'd like to know, so i can try it myself (without killing the Skybox as my wife (Hi Shell ! ) would probably do me serious damage !!). Cheers, Alan.

26th Feb 2007, 4:46 pm	#2
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? SCART outputs normally (always?) have a composite output which can be fed directly to an Aurora. Pinout of SCART can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCART Get a SCART to phono plugs adaptor lead and you won't even have to do any soldering.

26th Feb 2007, 4:55 pm	#3
BassoonBloke Pentode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: East London, UK. Posts: 231	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? Hello Jeffrey, I was'nt sure if the composite output from a scart socket actually included sync pulses and stuff needed for the converter. It seems odd that scart has a seperate sync output as well. Maybe i've just tried to make it too complicated? Thanks for your information on this. All the best, Alan.

26th Feb 2007, 5:25 pm	#4
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? The separate sync output is for use with RGB components. Composite means video with syncs. For colour, composite video also includes colour information and is often known as CVBS. Although very convenient, composite video (PAL, NTSC, SECAM) will gradually fall out use since the picture quality can never be as good as component video. Once the colour information is modulated on to a subcarrier and mixed with the luminance it's impossible to take it apart again without losing something. Or gaining something unwanted, like cross colour. The problems may be slight in some cases but they are always there. All satellite and Freeview transmissions are inherently component video.

26th Feb 2007, 11:02 pm	#5
channel405 Tetrode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: CH3, Blaen Plwyf Transmitter, Aberystwyth, WALES Posts: 72	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? Most half decent digiboxes will provide RGB out of the scart. Very few if any digiboxes will do component as this is not used so much in Europe. Component tends to be more popular in the US. Having said that many DVD players/recorders will output component through phono sockets and RGB through the scart. I feed my Aurora from the Y component phono socket of a DVD recorder so there is no colour subcarrier degrading the signal. The DVD recorder is in turn fed RGB from a digibox (Sky box) ensuring the best possible signal path. There is an arguement that RGB is better than component. I tend to agree. Component still needs a degree of processing, where as RGB just needs amplifying and feeding into the tube, but our American friends may disagree! __________________ 405 line TV, 1936- 1985 2007.........to the present day

27th Feb 2007, 12:23 am	#6
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? RGB is one type of component. YCbCr or YPbPr (often called YUV) are also called component. All the transmission systems use YPbPr, all the displays are inherently RGB. It can hardly matter where you convert to RGB. Using the Y component (from YPbPr or YC) to feed an Aurora is best if you have the older multistandard unit. The much more common Aurora with modulator has a very good comb filter so the loss from feeding it with composite PAL is negligible.

28th Feb 2007, 10:33 pm	#7
bobsterkent Hexode Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Medway towns, Kent, UK. Posts: 271	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? i can only get my standards converter to work on one of the dvd players i have, it wont work on the other one or the freeview box at all. any ideas?

28th Feb 2007, 10:52 pm	#8
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? That's very strange. The Aurora is very tolerant of all sorts of video inputs and will probably even cope with Macrovision anti-copy signals. Any chance of looking at the video input to the Aurora with a 'scope?

28th Feb 2007, 11:25 pm	#9
Dave Moll Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK Posts: 6,053	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? Just a thought, but could it be that they don't provide a composite output? __________________ Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)

1st Mar 2007, 12:15 am	#10
tubesrule Hexode Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Michigan USA Posts: 325	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? Hi, The decoder in the converter should lock to any standard definition interlaced video. I did notice a problem when developing the units with the output from my Denon A/V receiver when it was in it's default mode. The converter would not lock, but after further investigating, the output from the Denon was non-interlaced SD. I then set the output from my DVD player to progressive SD, and the unit would also not lock, so this is something to check for on those units. A television doesn't really care if the signal in non-interlaced, but the video decoder as programmed does. Hope this helps. Darryl

1st Mar 2007, 10:08 am	#11
BassoonBloke Pentode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: East London, UK. Posts: 231	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? Hello People, It seems that what was a quite simple question has become a bit of an unknown !! (this was why i posed the question). Has anyone actually tried hooking their SkyBox up to the Low cost Aurora and had it working (showing live tv in 405 line)? I will try to get hold of a scart break-out box at the weekend and give it a go myself. I will let you know the results. Cheers, Alan.

2nd Mar 2007, 9:47 am	#13
BassoonBloke Pentode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: East London, UK. Posts: 231	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? Cheers Jay, I look foreward to watching everything from now on on a 9" Bush TV12AM !! I'm going to rig mine up at the weekend, and enjoy. Thanks, Alan. p.s. i use a dvd player as a source of video, but my player has a composite video out socket as well as scart, so i use composite. Interesting that signals vary as much as they seem to considering that this is supposed to be a standard.

2nd Mar 2007, 10:23 am	#14
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? If anyone's having trouble with an Aurora and can get to my place in North London I'm happy to take a look. It will be interesting to see the sorts of signals that can give trouble. Darryl has highlighted sequential (non-interlaced) signals and I have my suspicions about Macrovision. I've got the test gear here to take a really good look at the signals and spot anything strange.

3rd Mar 2007, 9:09 am	#15
bobsterkent Hexode Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Medway towns, Kent, UK. Posts: 271	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? i'll take you upon that offer, would be nice to get rid of some of the stack in the corner.

29th Jun 2007, 7:13 am	#16
taipai_royal Pentode Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Didcot UK Posts: 121	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? I dont get a signal when using a scart to phono plugs adaptor on my Sagem digi box, but do when using the TV phonos. Any ideas? Graham.

29th Jun 2007, 10:49 am	#17
David_Robinson Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 94	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? Sounds like you need an adaptor that goes in the right direction i.e. from SCART to phono, or one with an input/output switch.

29th Jun 2007, 5:35 pm	#18
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,639	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? David's right. SCART leads vary in their make up, and some of the really cheap ones don't have all the terminals connected up. To be sure it'll work, 1: Check the menu's in the Box you wish to televise, or use the socket you use for a TV. 2: Get a SCART/PHONO adaptor. The type with ALL PINS and an IN/OUT switch. 3: Get a phono-phono lead - and a PHONO STEREO to MONO splitter. 4: Put the Scart/Phono adaptor in the Unit to be shown. 5: Use the lead and the sterep/mono adaptor to connect the Aurora. 6: Switch the aurora and the TV on. 7: If you've not got any signal, check the switch on the Scart Adaptor. You should now get a signal on the 405 Line TV. If you don't, then something is faulty!!! Cheers, Steve P __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

30th Jun 2007, 7:59 pm	#19
taipai_royal Pentode Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Didcot UK Posts: 121	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? Thanks Steve and David, Before I buy a switched adaptor here is some more info. My Sagem digi box is the very basic (cheap) model ITD58G with only one scart outlet. The choice of tv output settings are screen format (4.3), scaling (pan scan), and RGB output (on). When I connect up using a scart lead and 2 way box I can get a signal for the auroa,but only if the tv is also plugged in to the other socket on the 2 way box?, it doesnt matter if the tv is on or off ?. Graham

30th Jun 2007, 9:13 pm	#20
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Re: Skybox Scart to Aurora converter for live tv? Turn off the RGB output. If the output is RGB there may not be a composite PAL (CVBS) output that's needed by the Aurora.