Pineapple Problems! - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Derek · 30th Nov 2006, 9:56 pm

Noticed a few of you have had problems with this converter in previous (now closed) threads, what does the lack of shielding and/or inclusion of modulator in the box cause, interference on picture? The fault I get is frame collapse especially on peak white, but sometimes on the entire signal, I can only assume it is an alignment or input level problem? Having said that, when stable I think the Pineapple gives the best pic of all the converters I've had so far.

evingar · 30th Nov 2006, 10:11 pm

Hi Derek

Welcome to the forum

I had no end of problems with interaction between my modulator and Pineapple standards converter, such that I ended up putting them them in separate boxes.

I don't think interference is likely to cause complete frame collapse, or anything as dramatic as that. In my case I got a diagonal noise pattern across the picture. Your problem sounds more like an intermittent solder joint to me

ppppenguin · 30th Nov 2006, 10:28 pm

Welcome to the forum.

The Pineapple converter is an extremely potent source of interference. It really needs to be in a metal box with metal shell connectors. From memory, it suffers from some some slight random noise effects near black level but these are not really visible on pictures. Also from memory the pictures are a bit sharper than a Domino because it used a higher sampling rate. The vertical interpolation on the Pineapple uses a novel and economical scheme which is not quite as accurate as the Domino and definitely not as good as the Aurora. Again this is hardly going to be visible on most pictures.

Chris's (Evingar) diagnosis of your fault is sensible.

I note you are in Newcastle which makes you local to Fernseh (Aka David Boynes) who is one of the UK's foremost 405 enthusiasts.

Danny · 30th Nov 2006, 11:27 pm

Hi i have two of these and have no problems with interference one of my converters has a two modulators in the same box although there is an ally screen between them so i may be cheating the modulators are the american ones. the other converter is in separate boxes and im using the
one from the television mag this is vary good and has more output !.
is your problem due to the converter or an intermitent fault on your tv?
have you the same problem on diffrent sets.
Danny

Derek · 30th Nov 2006, 11:42 pm

Thanks for all the replies and welcomings, as a new member I was just going to sit back and take in all the amazing info for a few weeks first but just couldn't resist posting am afraid! Actually I would say the unit is well shielded, it is in a early metal modem type box, there is a modulator in the same box, but I use it with an external one anyway. Yes I have noticed the problem on different sets, come to think of it though, this unit was assembled for me from parts and never properly aligned, I do not have the necessary knowledge to do it. (any ideas who might or if it is a user possible adjustment?) This probably explains the problems, sorry I should have remembered that before, but as I say, sometimes it is perfectly OK. Yes I am impressed so far with the Aurora, I just haven't had it long enough or used it with enough different sets to know for certain. I know of David B and have met him once, but it is Ed Dinning who I know best and who has helped me with a lot of things in the past, and as someone who had no background in TV or electronics I am most grateful.

Derek · 1st Dec 2006, 6:08 am

I've since experimented more and have found out something, the converter's behaviour is indeed very dependent on the input signal, specifically from a DVD player. I tried two different DVDs (both Region 2 PAL), one converted flawlessly through the Pineapple, the other caused collapse throughout! Can the output of DVDs be so different? Has anyone else noticed this, or that the Pineapple is very sensitive to the type of input? I've used both DVDs through the Aurora with no problems. (albeit on a different DVD player)

ppppenguin · 1st Dec 2006, 8:27 am

I'm wondering if there's a problem with Macrovision. Amongst other things this puts some super-white pulses in the field blanking. It is present on the output of some DVD players and its presence may depend on the disc being played. The object is to stop DVDs being copied.

Macrovision may upset the Pineapple though I have no means of proving this since I don't have a Pineapple. AFAIK the Aurora is immune to Macrovision though I have not done any tests.

If you have a 'scope you can look in the field blanking for evidence of Macrovision.

Focus Diode · 1st Dec 2006, 9:24 am

Hi Derek,

You mentioned problems with DVD playback. I have a Dinosaur converter myself and find Macrovision copy protected DVDs replay with hooking at the top of the picture. All other DVDs playback perfectly.

I wonder if this is significant to your problem?

Cheers,
Brian R

oldeurope · 1st Dec 2006, 12:35 pm

Good morning,
I had a look at the schematic. From my UVB I know that the macrovision pulses are present at pin 1 of the LM1881 (comp. sync out)!
I am sure a monostable connected to this output will solve the problems.
BTW it is difficult to find a DVD with macrovision. I bought several DVDs and no macrovision, grrr. A friend sent me Independance Day, this one has macrovision.

Kind regards,
Darius

Derek · 3rd Dec 2006, 7:39 pm

Hi sorry have been away over weekend, thanks for the helpful replies, this seems very likely, and suggests the Pineapple is OK after all, at least in this situation, I will make a note of which DVDs perform like that. Would just like to point out I am using DVDs to watch compilations of monochrome TV programmes, no colour films or anything you understand

(by the way, why have I been labelled 'Diode'

)

Derek · 3rd Dec 2006, 11:52 pm

What I can tell you so far is that the DVDs that have the symbol like a 'No Entry' sign on the packaging saying copy protected DO convert through the Pineapple, whereas those with the black triangle with 'CP' on it DO NOT convert properly.

Ed_Dinning · 10th Dec 2006, 1:25 pm

Hi Derek, you are now up to a Triode. Its all down to your number of posts.

Ed

Derek · 10th Dec 2006, 2:33 pm

Thanks Ed,

I guessed it must be something like that, just couldn't find it on the site anywhere

I think the conversion problem has been answered certainly, thanks to all, I hadn't even thought of the copy protection, rather than tamper with the converter I will just use the affected DVDs with the Aurora

30th Nov 2006, 9:56 pm	#1
Derek Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: North East Posts: 61	Pineapple Problems! Noticed a few of you have had problems with this converter in previous (now closed) threads, what does the lack of shielding and/or inclusion of modulator in the box cause, interference on picture? The fault I get is frame collapse especially on peak white, but sometimes on the entire signal, I can only assume it is an alignment or input level problem? Having said that, when stable I think the Pineapple gives the best pic of all the converters I've had so far.

30th Nov 2006, 10:11 pm	#2
evingar Octode Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Newbury, Berkshire, UK. Posts: 1,770	Re: Pineapple Problems! Hi Derek Welcome to the forum I had no end of problems with interaction between my modulator and Pineapple standards converter, such that I ended up putting them them in separate boxes. I don't think interference is likely to cause complete frame collapse, or anything as dramatic as that. In my case I got a diagonal noise pattern across the picture. Your problem sounds more like an intermittent solder joint to me __________________ Chris

30th Nov 2006, 10:28 pm	#3
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Re: Pineapple Problems! Welcome to the forum. The Pineapple converter is an extremely potent source of interference. It really needs to be in a metal box with metal shell connectors. From memory, it suffers from some some slight random noise effects near black level but these are not really visible on pictures. Also from memory the pictures are a bit sharper than a Domino because it used a higher sampling rate. The vertical interpolation on the Pineapple uses a novel and economical scheme which is not quite as accurate as the Domino and definitely not as good as the Aurora. Again this is hardly going to be visible on most pictures. Chris's (Evingar) diagnosis of your fault is sensible. I note you are in Newcastle which makes you local to Fernseh (Aka David Boynes) who is one of the UK's foremost 405 enthusiasts.

30th Nov 2006, 11:27 pm	#4
Danny Heptode Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Walsham, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 516	Re: Pineapple Problems! Hi i have two of these and have no problems with interference one of my converters has a two modulators in the same box although there is an ally screen between them so i may be cheating the modulators are the american ones. the other converter is in separate boxes and im using the one from the television mag this is vary good and has more output !. is your problem due to the converter or an intermitent fault on your tv? have you the same problem on diffrent sets. Danny

30th Nov 2006, 11:42 pm	#5
Derek Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: North East Posts: 61	Re: Pineapple Problems! Thanks for all the replies and welcomings, as a new member I was just going to sit back and take in all the amazing info for a few weeks first but just couldn't resist posting am afraid! Actually I would say the unit is well shielded, it is in a early metal modem type box, there is a modulator in the same box, but I use it with an external one anyway. Yes I have noticed the problem on different sets, come to think of it though, this unit was assembled for me from parts and never properly aligned, I do not have the necessary knowledge to do it. (any ideas who might or if it is a user possible adjustment?) This probably explains the problems, sorry I should have remembered that before, but as I say, sometimes it is perfectly OK. Yes I am impressed so far with the Aurora, I just haven't had it long enough or used it with enough different sets to know for certain. I know of David B and have met him once, but it is Ed Dinning who I know best and who has helped me with a lot of things in the past, and as someone who had no background in TV or electronics I am most grateful.

1st Dec 2006, 6:08 am	#6
Derek Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: North East Posts: 61	Re: Pineapple Problems! I've since experimented more and have found out something, the converter's behaviour is indeed very dependent on the input signal, specifically from a DVD player. I tried two different DVDs (both Region 2 PAL), one converted flawlessly through the Pineapple, the other caused collapse throughout! Can the output of DVDs be so different? Has anyone else noticed this, or that the Pineapple is very sensitive to the type of input? I've used both DVDs through the Aurora with no problems. (albeit on a different DVD player)

1st Dec 2006, 8:27 am	#7
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Re: Pineapple Problems! I'm wondering if there's a problem with Macrovision. Amongst other things this puts some super-white pulses in the field blanking. It is present on the output of some DVD players and its presence may depend on the disc being played. The object is to stop DVDs being copied. Macrovision may upset the Pineapple though I have no means of proving this since I don't have a Pineapple. AFAIK the Aurora is immune to Macrovision though I have not done any tests. If you have a 'scope you can look in the field blanking for evidence of Macrovision.

1st Dec 2006, 9:24 am	#8
Focus Diode Octode Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Borough of Gateshead, UK. Posts: 1,420	Re: Pineapple Problems! Hi Derek, You mentioned problems with DVD playback. I have a Dinosaur converter myself and find Macrovision copy protected DVDs replay with hooking at the top of the picture. All other DVDs playback perfectly. I wonder if this is significant to your problem? Cheers, Brian R

1st Dec 2006, 12:35 pm	#9
oldeurope Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Solingen, Germany Posts: 727	Re: Pineapple Problems! Good morning, I had a look at the schematic. From my UVB I know that the macrovision pulses are present at pin 1 of the LM1881 (comp. sync out)! I am sure a monostable connected to this output will solve the problems. BTW it is difficult to find a DVD with macrovision. I bought several DVDs and no macrovision, grrr. A friend sent me Independance Day, this one has macrovision. Kind regards, Darius

3rd Dec 2006, 7:39 pm	#10
Derek Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: North East Posts: 61	Re: Pineapple Problems! Hi sorry have been away over weekend, thanks for the helpful replies, this seems very likely, and suggests the Pineapple is OK after all, at least in this situation, I will make a note of which DVDs perform like that. Would just like to point out I am using DVDs to watch compilations of monochrome TV programmes, no colour films or anything you understand (by the way, why have I been labelled 'Diode' )

3rd Dec 2006, 11:52 pm	#11
Derek Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: North East Posts: 61	Re: Pineapple Problems! What I can tell you so far is that the DVDs that have the symbol like a 'No Entry' sign on the packaging saying copy protected DO convert through the Pineapple, whereas those with the black triangle with 'CP' on it DO NOT convert properly.

10th Dec 2006, 1:25 pm	#12
Ed_Dinning Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK. Posts: 8,016	Re: Pineapple Problems! Hi Derek, you are now up to a Triode. Its all down to your number of posts. Ed

10th Dec 2006, 2:33 pm	#13
Derek Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: North East Posts: 61	Re: Pineapple Problems! Thanks Ed, I guessed it must be something like that, just couldn't find it on the site anywhere I think the conversion problem has been answered certainly, thanks to all, I hadn't even thought of the copy protection, rather than tamper with the converter I will just use the affected DVDs with the Aurora