PCB cleaning - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Oldcodger · 3rd Feb 2016, 12:14 am

I've got a bit of PCB, and I intend to iron on a laser writer print. But recently I've cleaned fingerprints off this PCB, with car polish stuff, but surface looks a bit greasy, even after a wash with Meths. Any suggestions ?

Radio Wrangler · 3rd Feb 2016, 1:36 am

Car polish stuff is likely to contain some wax or silicone polish - even if it has a abrasive in it for paint 'restoration'

The original 'Belco' rubbing compound was polish-free so that the abraded surface was free of anything which would interfere with subsequent paint spraying. Brasso followed by detergent is what I've deoxidised and degreased raw PCB material with in the past.

David

joebog1 · 3rd Feb 2016, 2:19 am

I use a green scotchbrite pot scrubber and a powder type bath cleaner like Ajax or Gumption, should those products be available in UK

Joe

Diabolical Artificer · 3rd Feb 2016, 6:59 am

Jif or should I say Cif and as Joe says a pan scrubber does the job and leaves it smelling nice too : ) We used to have Ajax Joe but they keep mucking about with the names, Toothpaste works too.

Andy.

dseymo1 · 3rd Feb 2016, 7:45 am

IME, Brasso also leaves a greasy residue.
I used it to polish a brass item prior to lacqering, and the lacquer wouldn't 'take' at all, but formed isolated pools on the surface. It took some thorough degreasing to resolve.
Cellulose thinners are pretty good for this sort of job.

jonmiller · 3rd Feb 2016, 8:18 am

I use these

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/pcb-cl...locks/2162706/

David Simpson · 3rd Feb 2016, 12:14 pm

Its supposed to be a "No No", but I still occasionally use CTC. In a well ventilated space, I'll hasten to add. Brings back evocative memories of the 60's.

Regards, David

Scimitar · 3rd Feb 2016, 1:04 pm

Automotive panel wipe is designed specifically to remove silicones and waxes before painting. There are various types, an alcohol fast, a spirit slow and a water based slow. I use the spirit slow mostly.

RF Burn · 3rd Feb 2016, 1:24 pm

Common kitchen items like washing powder, jif/cif liquid cleaners, coca-cola... but avoid things like brillo pads or polishes which leave a waxy coating.

A quick soak in a tub of warm washing powder solution is my first port-of-call for cleaning metal surfaces and small parts, followed by a light brush down with an old toothbrush.

bikerhifinut · 3rd Feb 2016, 2:41 pm

In Common with Joe bog etc, I just use a non-impregnated pan scourer and a rinse in clean water. And air dry. So far I havent had any problems.
However I have only made PCB's in the traditional "Paint the resist on manually" way and I wonder if the small scratches left behind after using scourers and abrasive cleaners like Cif and "Hob brite" might affect the use of photo etch resists etc?
A.

G6Tanuki · 3rd Feb 2016, 6:45 pm

I use industrial-grade wire-wool (as traditionally used by plumbers to clean copper pipes before soldering...) and then wash down with IPA to remove grease/fingerprints. A quick blast with a hairdryer to make sure all the IPA is evaporated, and bob's yeruncle as they say.

Oldcodger · 3rd Feb 2016, 10:52 pm

Been a long time( 20 years ) since I did any PCB work, and then I used a bit of wet & dry ,followed by a wash with a crème cleaner mixed with washing up liquid, to get the surface to hold as much of a pool of water as possible. looks like it's back to the old ways, then. i've got a double sided wet & dry sponge block . I was trying to find a method that veered away from any abrasive method, as I'm going to try ( fro the first time) the iron on using a laser printer method, and worry about ink not getting into any scratches.

joebog1 · 4th Feb 2016, 12:43 am

The "Cif, Ajax, Toothpaste etc etc is only very mildly abrasive.
Sanding blocks are just so!! for sanding large amounts of material.
Even 1000 grit is far too harsh for a decent PCB image.

G6Tanuki should be aware that if the tinyiest particle of steel wool is left behind, and you use Ferric Chloride as the etchant, there will be a large hole eaten into the copper.
I know!! I used to use steel wool myself!

Sorry Oldcodger,
G6Tanuki

Oldcodger · 4th Feb 2016, 10:09 pm

Wet & dry ,with a creme cleaner ,mixed with washing up liquid was what I used when I last did PCB ,with transfers and a pen or a permanent marker, and had few problems. But I've got the board nice and clean and shiny now, so I'm tempted to use a crème cleaner + washing up liquid to get rid of the stuff the car polish left behind ,as I'm going to try the iron method.

joebog1 · 4th Feb 2016, 11:30 pm

In answer to biker, I use spray on positive resist, and my method of cleaning works perfectly. I use the sun as my UV point source, for exposure through the track design which is printed by inkjet ( laser is better) onto overhead projection clear sheets.

Joe

Oldcodger · 25th Feb 2016, 11:19 pm

Thanks, Joe- I've never had any success from the UV method (both in UK with a light box and abroad with strong UV). Problem is that I've always used transfers and pen or pen, and had no problems. But now I'm looking at dedicated PC program (Express PCB) allied to my old laser printer (or failing that print from my inkjet in high quality and use one of the small shops with laser copying facilities).
Next problem (and I've added to my original topic, hoping mods will think, like me, it's more appropriate and less messy than having several posts on a similar topic), is ---has anyone found the best temperature on the iron for optimum ink transfer.

Al (astral highway) · 25th Feb 2016, 11:28 pm

Dishwasher!

FRANK.C · 26th Feb 2016, 12:27 am

I have had varying success with the iron but never perfect. The last PCB that I made I used a laminator instead of a iron and ran it through about 5 times, it came out perfect. I have not tried it again yet so that one time may be a fluke.

Frank

wireless_john · 26th Feb 2016, 1:33 pm

I clean mine with cif/jif. Hadn't thought of the dishwasher though.

Oldcodger · 27th Feb 2016, 12:25 am

My dishwasher will be the one who wields the iron (and also has an excellent rolling pin arm

), so I think in the interests of domestic harmony, I'll clean the PCB myself.
Reason I asked about temperature is that there's a note from a previous owner not to put Melamine in Laser printer, but any printed sheet never feels that warm.

However, the laminator idea might be worth looking at for those who use light boxes. Print PCB layout to paper using a laser printer. Then pass paper and laminator sheet through laminator where laser toner should be transferred (in theory) to clear sheet, ready for lightbox.

3rd Feb 2016, 12:14 am	#1
Oldcodger Nonode Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: West Midlands, UK. Posts: 2,181	PCB cleaning I've got a bit of PCB, and I intend to iron on a laser writer print. But recently I've cleaned fingerprints off this PCB, with car polish stuff, but surface looks a bit greasy, even after a wash with Meths. Any suggestions ?

3rd Feb 2016, 1:36 am	#2
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,858	Re: PCB cleaning Car polish stuff is likely to contain some wax or silicone polish - even if it has a abrasive in it for paint 'restoration' The original 'Belco' rubbing compound was polish-free so that the abraded surface was free of anything which would interfere with subsequent paint spraying. Brasso followed by detergent is what I've deoxidised and degreased raw PCB material with in the past. David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

3rd Feb 2016, 2:19 am	#3
joebog1 Banned Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Mareeba, North Queensland, Australia Posts: 2,704	Re: PCB cleaning I use a green scotchbrite pot scrubber and a powder type bath cleaner like Ajax or Gumption, should those products be available in UK Joe

3rd Feb 2016, 6:59 am	#4
Diabolical Artificer Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sleaford, Lincs. UK. Posts: 7,657	Re: PCB cleaning Jif or should I say Cif and as Joe says a pan scrubber does the job and leaves it smelling nice too : ) We used to have Ajax Joe but they keep mucking about with the names, Toothpaste works too. Andy. __________________ Curiosity hasn't killed this cat...so far.

3rd Feb 2016, 7:45 am	#5
dseymo1 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shropshire, UK. Posts: 3,051	Re: PCB cleaning IME, Brasso also leaves a greasy residue. I used it to polish a brass item prior to lacqering, and the lacquer wouldn't 'take' at all, but formed isolated pools on the surface. It took some thorough degreasing to resolve. Cellulose thinners are pretty good for this sort of job.

3rd Feb 2016, 8:18 am	#6
jonmiller Pentode Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Worcester, Worcestershire, UK. Posts: 241	Re: PCB cleaning I use these http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/pcb-cl...locks/2162706/

3rd Feb 2016, 12:14 pm	#7
David Simpson Nonode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Aberdeen, UK. Posts: 2,852	Re: PCB cleaning Its supposed to be a "No No", but I still occasionally use CTC. In a well ventilated space, I'll hasten to add. Brings back evocative memories of the 60's. Regards, David

3rd Feb 2016, 1:04 pm	#8
Scimitar Heptode Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Gloucestershire, UK. Posts: 719	Re: PCB cleaning Automotive panel wipe is designed specifically to remove silicones and waxes before painting. There are various types, an alcohol fast, a spirit slow and a water based slow. I use the spirit slow mostly.

3rd Feb 2016, 1:24 pm	#9
RF Burn Hexode Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Ramsgate, Kent, UK. Posts: 252	Re: PCB cleaning Common kitchen items like washing powder, jif/cif liquid cleaners, coca-cola... but avoid things like brillo pads or polishes which leave a waxy coating. A quick soak in a tub of warm washing powder solution is my first port-of-call for cleaning metal surfaces and small parts, followed by a light brush down with an old toothbrush.

3rd Feb 2016, 2:41 pm	#10
bikerhifinut Octode Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK Posts: 1,993	Re: PCB cleaning In Common with Joe bog etc, I just use a non-impregnated pan scourer and a rinse in clean water. And air dry. So far I havent had any problems. However I have only made PCB's in the traditional "Paint the resist on manually" way and I wonder if the small scratches left behind after using scourers and abrasive cleaners like Cif and "Hob brite" might affect the use of photo etch resists etc? A.

3rd Feb 2016, 6:45 pm	#11
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,996	Re: PCB cleaning I use industrial-grade wire-wool (as traditionally used by plumbers to clean copper pipes before soldering...) and then wash down with IPA to remove grease/fingerprints. A quick blast with a hairdryer to make sure all the IPA is evaporated, and bob's yeruncle as they say.

3rd Feb 2016, 10:52 pm	#12
Oldcodger Nonode Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: West Midlands, UK. Posts: 2,181	Re: PCB cleaning Been a long time( 20 years ) since I did any PCB work, and then I used a bit of wet & dry ,followed by a wash with a crème cleaner mixed with washing up liquid, to get the surface to hold as much of a pool of water as possible. looks like it's back to the old ways, then. i've got a double sided wet & dry sponge block . I was trying to find a method that veered away from any abrasive method, as I'm going to try ( fro the first time) the iron on using a laser printer method, and worry about ink not getting into any scratches.

4th Feb 2016, 12:43 am	#13
joebog1 Banned Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Mareeba, North Queensland, Australia Posts: 2,704	Re: PCB cleaning The "Cif, Ajax, Toothpaste etc etc is only very mildly abrasive. Sanding blocks are just so!! for sanding large amounts of material. Even 1000 grit is far too harsh for a decent PCB image. G6Tanuki should be aware that if the tinyiest particle of steel wool is left behind, and you use Ferric Chloride as the etchant, there will be a large hole eaten into the copper. I know!! I used to use steel wool myself! Sorry Oldcodger, G6Tanuki

4th Feb 2016, 10:09 pm	#14
Oldcodger Nonode Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: West Midlands, UK. Posts: 2,181	Re: PCB cleaning Wet & dry ,with a creme cleaner ,mixed with washing up liquid was what I used when I last did PCB ,with transfers and a pen or a permanent marker, and had few problems. But I've got the board nice and clean and shiny now, so I'm tempted to use a crème cleaner + washing up liquid to get rid of the stuff the car polish left behind ,as I'm going to try the iron method.

4th Feb 2016, 11:30 pm	#15
joebog1 Banned Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Mareeba, North Queensland, Australia Posts: 2,704	Re: PCB cleaning In answer to biker, I use spray on positive resist, and my method of cleaning works perfectly. I use the sun as my UV point source, for exposure through the track design which is printed by inkjet ( laser is better) onto overhead projection clear sheets. Joe

25th Feb 2016, 11:19 pm	#16
Oldcodger Nonode Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: West Midlands, UK. Posts: 2,181	Re: PCB cleaning Thanks, Joe- I've never had any success from the UV method (both in UK with a light box and abroad with strong UV). Problem is that I've always used transfers and pen or pen, and had no problems. But now I'm looking at dedicated PC program (Express PCB) allied to my old laser printer (or failing that print from my inkjet in high quality and use one of the small shops with laser copying facilities). Next problem (and I've added to my original topic, hoping mods will think, like me, it's more appropriate and less messy than having several posts on a similar topic), is ---has anyone found the best temperature on the iron for optimum ink transfer.

25th Feb 2016, 11:28 pm	#17
Al (astral highway) Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK. Posts: 3,496	Re: PCB cleaning Dishwasher! __________________ Al

26th Feb 2016, 12:27 am	#18
FRANK.C Heptode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Roscommon, Ireland Posts: 732	Re: PCB cleaning I have had varying success with the iron but never perfect. The last PCB that I made I used a laminator instead of a iron and ran it through about 5 times, it came out perfect. I have not tried it again yet so that one time may be a fluke. Frank

26th Feb 2016, 1:33 pm	#19
wireless_john Heptode Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Gosport, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 605	Re: PCB cleaning I clean mine with cif/jif. Hadn't thought of the dishwasher though. __________________ GQRP Club 4704 - BVWS Member

27th Feb 2016, 12:25 am	#20
Oldcodger Nonode Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: West Midlands, UK. Posts: 2,181	Re: PCB cleaning My dishwasher will be the one who wields the iron (and also has an excellent rolling pin arm ), so I think in the interests of domestic harmony, I'll clean the PCB myself. Reason I asked about temperature is that there's a note from a previous owner not to put Melamine in Laser printer, but any printed sheet never feels that warm. However, the laminator idea might be worth looking at for those who use light boxes. Print PCB layout to paper using a laser printer. Then pass paper and laminator sheet through laminator where laser toner should be transferred (in theory) to clear sheet, ready for lightbox.