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Old 7th Jun 2012, 8:42 pm   #1
mercede5
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Default NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this but I know nothing about the subject
I found a wooden crate in an anderson shelter. The box was screwed with the metal staps (which have since corroded.
the crate has
10/D18253
Transmitter
Type T1951
SEB No 451
Qty 1

We believe from a very faded label that it may have been sent from
Charles Britain in Upper St. Martin's Lane, London

Opening the crate the "case" is seal wrapped in paper. tearing back the paper it appears the whole case is coated in a form of wax. Acouple of leads can be seen through the wax
Across the join of the paper is a label with the same as above plus last date of charge 15 September 1951 and the words
Method 2 pack
Not to be opened until required for use: except for renewal of desiccant


At present we have not opened it to find what it is.
I am looking for a local "expert" that may help. - not sure the best way to remove the wax and would hate to damage the contents.

The local press have been to look today (7/6/12) and should run the story in the Eastern Daily Press/Eastern Evening News tomorrow (also on the web if you search for EDP24)

We are hoping to open it on monday 11th
It may be I am wasting my time but I think we will find a 1951 transmitter in brand new condition.

As stated I know nothing of the subject so
Any information would be gratefully received
Many thanks
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 9:33 am   #2
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

It will be interesting to see what it is as it isn't anything well-known. Please post lots of photos.

I suggest you ask the RAF archive at Hendon http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/ who should be able to tell you.
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 11:40 am   #3
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

A real time caspule!

It's amazing anything's survived that long in near-perfect condtition in a shelter, presumably it's bone dry in there.

Surprising it's post-war in a way. I wonder whether it's really been in there since 1951, or whether it was bought as surplus at a later date, and just shoved in there for storage and then forgotten about or abandoned in a house move.

Do you know who the previous occupants of the house were, and their occupations?

Nick.
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 11:52 am   #4
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

In a post on another forum, reference is made to this radio being sent to Abbey Radio at 2 St Johns Road, Norwich. I can remember visiting Abbey Radio as a child in the late 1950's to buy needles for my wind up gramophone. They were in fact located in St Johns CLOSE, not St Johns ROAD.

I would suggest that Charles Britain bought in surplus radio equipment from The War Department and sold it on to radio amateurs through adverts in The RSGB Bull and Practical Wireless. Brand new, unopened, boxed equipment was often sold on in this way.

Perhaps the owner of Abbey Radio was a radio amateur who bought the transmitter, stored it in his Anderson shelter and then forgot about? Or perhaps he sold such items in his shop and this one remained unsold?

No one seems to have information about the T1951 so the pictures promise to be very interesting.
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 11:55 am   #5
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

Just Googled T1951 to no avail and would put my money on brand new transmitter with out a doubt.

Possibly similar to a 19 set.

David

PS The packing used by the forces will ensure its in mint condition and normally waterproof.

PPS When i was a child there was a tipping near by of military components and did they take some opening.
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 12:53 pm   #6
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

The black wax is in fact more waxed paper, if you remove the outer brown paper, and rotate the unit you will see a seam along one side, and a neatley sealed crimp on either end.

A blunt knife can be used to ease these seams apart, and you will then find at least one more layer of brown waxed paper, as well as some silica gel, and other packing.

I am thinking you will find a bit of late WW2, early 50s radar type equipment.

HTH
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 3:13 pm   #7
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

Many thanks for the responses.

The paper labels are obviously in poor condition but yes, it is Abbey Radio of St Johns CLOSE - the house deeds show a John Harvey Fisher (Radio Engineer) bought the property in 1954.

As soon as it is opened I will post images (now I have got the hang of how to do it).

There are also a few other units that I have taken out today (all in poor condition). A receiver (see images), a transformer (I think) the word FAYBER is cast on it, and a few valves (for the receiver?).

Would it be OK to use a hairdryer on the wax to make it more malleable? I think the transmitter is in a metal box so it would not damage it, although there are leads lying just below the surface.

Any suggestions please.
Many thanks
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 3:47 pm   #8
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

The "RF" unit is part of a WII-era "Gee" radionavigation system.

http://www.duxfordradiosociety.org/r...355/r1355.html

They were popular 'convertors' used in the post-WWII era as a way for radio-amateurs to receive the VHF bands on a shortwave receiver.

Schematics and line-illustrations of the "Gee" RF-unit are here:

http://www.vmarsmanuals.co.uk/archiv...I_Tropical.pdf

--G6Tanuki
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 3:58 pm   #9
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
The "RF" unit is part of a WII-era "Gee" radionavigation system.
Ummm! Have a look at http://home.btconnect.com/gmb/airequip.htm I think that you'll find the RF 25 unit is not the Gee plug-in but part of the TR1196 transmitter receiver. I may be wrong, of course, as it is yonks since I had an RF-26 as a ten metre converter!
I think Sean is right; you're going to find it's a piece of radar or countermeasures gear, but very rare. Looking forward to seeing more pix!

73

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Old 8th Jun 2012, 4:02 pm   #10
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

"Receiving Unit type 25" is listed here: http://home.btconnect.com/gmb/airequip.htm

where it is described as:

"Transceiver, 4.3MHz-6.7MHz in maximum of four spot Xtal channels, with 465kHz IF. Airborne equipment designed originally for F.A.A with later B and C versions for Coastal Command with special channel A 2.41MHz. Can be used with A1134 for multi-seat aircraft. Consists of Tx Type 22 (10R/23); Rx Type 25 (10P/11); 12V PU Type 104 (10K/238) for TR1196A (10D/369) or 24V PU Type 87 (10K/201) for TR1196 (10D/325).
Valves in tx: VR91, VT501, VT52
Valves in rx: 2xVR53, VR57, 2xVR56, VR55"

and described as part of "TR1196" - see http://www.vmarsmanuals.co.uk/archiv..._TR1196_Rx.pdf for example of how they were converted post-WWII

Quote:
Originally Posted by G3VKM_Roger View Post
Ummm! Have a look at http://home.btconnect.com/gmb/airequip.htm I think that you'll find the RF 25 unit is not the Gee plug-in but part of the TR1196 transmitter receiver. I may be wrong, of course, as it is yonks since I had an RF-26 as a ten metre converter! :
Roger/G3VKM
Yes, I got my RF-units mixed up.

I've still got a RF27 (the one with the EF50s) in the attic somewhere - tweaked as a 70MHz convertor.

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Old 8th Jun 2012, 4:28 pm   #11
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

I am way out, as I really thought this would be in mint condition. Still a nice find.
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 4:30 pm   #12
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

The packing hasn't been removed from the T1951 yet!
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 4:51 pm   #13
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

Sorry Graham ,not doing well today with my earlier typo error.
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 5:27 pm   #14
mercede5
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

I will make this my last post before opening the box (planned for Monday) as I feel somewhat out of my depth here.

Having looked at http://home.btconnect.com/gmb/airequip.htm#TR9 there are a number of references to 10D:

T 1394 Transmitter (10D/13317), part of TR9G
R 1395 Receiver (10D/13318), part of TR9G
T 1396 Transmitter (10D/13320), part of TR9H
T 1397 Transmitter (10D/13322), part of TR9J
R 1398 Receiver (10D/13323), part of TR9J
T 1399 Transmitter (10D/13325), part of TR9K
R 1400 Receiver (10D/13326), part of TR9K
T 1401 Transmitter (10D/13328), part of TR9L
R 1402 Receiver (10D/13329), part of TR9L

The label on the box has 10D/18253. If logic prevails I think we have found a later version of this.

Still hoping someone can give advice on how to remove this wax with minimum damage and effort.

Last edited by mercede5; 8th Jun 2012 at 5:35 pm. Reason: spelling correction
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 6:44 pm   #15
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

I am advised by Paul Whiteley (a very knowledgable source) that the T1951 is an AN/APQ-9 (Carpet III) modified to cover 475Mc/s to 485Mc/s for Radio Counter-Measures.
Andy
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 7:00 pm   #16
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

Re opening i would try and lift the covering and Carefully open with a Stanley knife.Not pressing further down than needed.
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 7:03 pm   #17
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

As I said in my earlier post, the wax should not be on the actual equipment - it will be part of the wrapping and packing - I have extensive experience unpacking equipment of this era, the blunt knife will do the job, just go carefully.

I would go along eith Paul's identification - so while probably rare in this condition, not exactly exciting either.

The other units are interesting though.
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 7:11 pm   #18
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0FYA Andy View Post
I am advised by Paul Whiteley (a very knowledgable source) that the T1951 is an AN/APQ-9 (Carpet III) modified to cover 475Mc/s to 485Mc/s for Radio Counter-Measures.
Ah, very good work Andy. So it's an American set? There are lot of people around who are into ECM gear and perhaps the RAF Neatishead museum in Norfolk might give it a home. Now off to read about "Carpet"!

73

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Old 8th Jun 2012, 7:30 pm   #19
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0FYA Andy View Post
I am advised by Paul Whiteley (a very knowledgable source) that the T1951 is an AN/APQ-9 (Carpet III) modified to cover 475Mc/s to 485Mc/s for Radio Counter-Measures.
Andy,

I can confirm what Paul says. My list says: "AN/APQ9 110DB/278 mod. 475-485 Mc/s R.C.M."

"R.C.M." stands for "radio counter measures". Quite why anyone would modify a unit designed to cover 475 - 585Mc/s to stop at 485Mc/s beats me - I have no further details on that at the moment.

There are good pics of the equipment at:

http://aafradio.org/countermeasures/APQ-9.html
http://www.tubecollector.org/equipment/8012-radar.htm

It was used for airborne jamming of the German Warzburg radars. This probably explains why it was not turning up in the standard lists - it was obsolete as soon as the war was won.

Incidentally it has nothing to do with RF units, 19 sets, or TR9. Its interesting that has the Sept 1951 date on it. Maybe it took the MOD stores people 6 years to work out that we wouldn't need to be jamming German radar systems any more!

The APQ-9 is fairly rare in the UK. It is well known over in the US though - where the equipment was made.

Richard
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 7:57 pm   #20
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Default Re: NORWICH 1951 Transmitter found sealed in box

Newspaper report here:-

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/...tion_1_1405071
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