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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 5:43 pm   #21
Mike. Watterson
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers

Surely Band I BBC sound for 405 lines from 1936 till the "end" of Band I was 7m band to 6 m?
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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 6:45 pm   #22
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers

I think Baird's 30 line transmissions on Medium Wave used the same frequencies for sound and vision, just not simultaneously. Also they were made on existing sound radio frequencies, and coupled with the experimental nature, it seems odd that a radio set would be marked "TV sound"

A radio that was designed for 405/240 line TV sound around 50MHz in or after 1936 seems more likely, I don't know if they were a viable commercial proposition, but I imagine many were built by people who felt a full blown homemade TV set was beyond their skills.
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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 7:08 pm   #23
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers

Pre-WWII UK TV sound was on 41.5MHz and there were indeed some 'posh' broadcast radios of the era that covered this.

[There were also "Vision-only" TV receivers produced - these either had no sound-receiver whatsoever (because you had a 'TV sound' capable broadcast-receiver) - or they down-converted the TV sound signal to a frequency on the MW band so you could feed it into your existing MW broadcast-receiver.]

Some 1930s US broadcast-receivers had a specific "Police" band on the scale, from around 1.5 to 3MHz - a bit different from the UK where "listening to the police radio" was deprecated and getting caught doing so would gain you a slap on the wrist from the authorities!
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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 7:33 pm   #24
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers

Mechanical TV in all countries (and it was NOT a Baird or UK only thing) used MW after the end of regular programs.
There are transistor sets with TV sound on the scale. Popular in USA for sport. I have an "Academy" that looks like it's 6 band
Actually WB, PB and AIR are the same band (162.5, 145-176, 108-136)
CB 1 to 80 (I think USA CB is only 1 to 40 of that)
Then TV1 and FM bands are same position, but 5th & 6th scales (54-87, 88-108).
I've seen many transistor sets since late 1960s with these "fake" multiband scales that look more than they really are. I've maybe a 2nd one somewhere with dual tuning caps on one drive (why?) that has TV sound marked on it.
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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 8:17 pm   #25
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers

I have an Ekco A28 with television sound marked on the scale. I was always disappointed that it didn't work as a child, but I didn't appreciate that we were Ch2 and it was probably intended for Ch1 back then (1946). I think it worked on a harmonic, not 41.5 MHz directly!
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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 11:24 pm   #26
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers (Wave Lengths)

I've got a radio which can be tuned into Band I & low band III to pick up TV sound.

Some radios aimed at the had a weather band & sometimes 1 or 2 other odd bands.

http://www.dustygizmos.com/arcpages/...io.htm#Bambino

http://www.dustygizmos.com/arcpages/...ne%20Worldstar
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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 11:39 pm   #27
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
Pre-WWII UK TV sound was on 41.5MHz and there were indeed some 'posh' broadcast radios of the era that covered this.
Even from the Co-Op: this one's an MSH957, I think the table MSH938 had the same dial and coverage.

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Old 23rd Jul 2019, 12:02 am   #28
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers (Wave Lengths)

The Murphy A74 could receive TV sound...
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Old 23rd Jul 2019, 9:08 am   #29
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers

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Originally Posted by Paul_RK View Post

Even from the Co-Op: this one's an MSH957, I think the table MSH938 had the same dial and coverage.
I think that's the first radio I've seen that actually has Clevedon on the dial! I'm going to have to ratch in the shed now and look over the few radios I possess.
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Old 23rd Jul 2019, 9:34 am   #30
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers (Wave Lengths)

iI have a dial saved from a long-sincce scrapped pre-war Philco Radio, which has the scale calibrated in kc/s. MW coverage is from c. 530-1750kc, and station names include, Plymouth, Bournemouth, Aberdeen, etc., but not Clevedon. The radio also had LW (150-360kc., which includes 'Aircraft' at between 320-340kc., and SW between 5.8 & 18Mc/s, including 49M(5.8-6.6Mc),38M (7.4-8.4Mc), Amateur & Shipping Bands Unfortunately I scrapped the radio more than 50 yr=ears ago, and don't remember the model, but it used octal valves (ECH42, etc.), and the I.F.t.;s were wound on wooden rods,, adjusted with trimmers.
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Old 23rd Jul 2019, 12:40 pm   #31
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC/HL View Post
I have an Ekco A28 with television sound marked on the scale.
Going a bit beyond the scope of this thread - but following the abolition of the radio licence, (so the years 1970 - 1985) would you have needed a TV licence to listen to TV sound?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'LIVEWIRE?' View Post
... and don't remember the model, but it used octal valves (ECH42, etc.), and the I.F.t.;s were wound on wooden rods, adjusted with trimmers.
Hmmm. The ECH42 is B8A, not octal.
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Old 23rd Jul 2019, 3:04 pm   #32
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers (Wave Lengths)

They were presumably intended to be used with a vision only receiver (now we are getting a bit OT) so the licence conditions would be met. It was pushing things a bit for early octal valves though.
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Old 23rd Jul 2019, 3:24 pm   #33
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalee20 View Post
Going a bit beyond the scope of this thread - but following the abolition of the radio licence, (so the years 1970 - 1985) would you have needed a TV licence to listen to TV sound?
No - hence a certain popularity for TV sound receivers for the blind in that period. I've examples from Roberts (quite like Roberts' usual portables of the day in styling, though only for mains power) and Clarke & Smith, I'm pretty sure there was a Decca offering too.

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Old 23rd Jul 2019, 4:53 pm   #34
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers (Wave Lengths)

I have a feeling the radio licence still existed in 1970, but also possibly the Blind might have been exempt. Roberts may have produced a set for the Blind.
You needed a picture tube and tuner to be obliged to have TV licence for a receiver, thus sound only or monitor only was exempt from a TV licence.

There used to be a separate licence needed to for car radios, hence so many "dockable" dual function models, even able to use car power and speaker as well as aerial, as they'd be covered by the licence for the home. I think too a portable TV was / is only covered by the home licence if only used on batteries. That still applies in Ireland with campaigns that holiday homes and caravans need a TV licence. They are arguing here now if ANY sort of video playback, esp. Internet streaming, should need a licence, or if a minimum screen size should apply or just slap a media tax on everyone's Electricity bill. TV licence was nearly brought in just for UK reception in 1950s and actually came in more than 3 months before Irish TV started.

Last edited by Mike. Watterson; 23rd Jul 2019 at 4:54 pm. Reason: Edit: Paul confirms they did.
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Old 23rd Jul 2019, 6:14 pm   #35
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers (Wave Lengths)

I don't know why it is but I find it hard to relate to KHz/MHz. I have tried making myself tables, even specific for the particular set. When using a comms set like an R1155 or CR100 I struggle to find the bands each time, 41, 19 etc, their being marked in MHz and KHz and nothing on the dial to indicate broadcast and amateur bands.
Metres, wavelength, aerials ... seems more intuitive. Despite a scientific education, I have the same problem with Centigrade and metres ... I suspect it is because although scientific measures ARE the ideal for calculation, imperial have a basis in practical application ... is it just me .. getting off the thread too...
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Old 23rd Jul 2019, 6:57 pm   #36
Mike. Watterson
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers (Wave Lengths)

No, it's just your background. Metric is largely MORE practical than Imperial.

However metres is equally as valid as Hertz or Cycles Per Second for Radio. It's metric and related to the aerial size.

I'm happy with with metres and frequency.
"We'll try the 2m band next, 144.350 MHz SSB if it's free otherwise 144.600. If no QSO, we'll come back here to 6m, or do you want to try 80m?"

Pye domestic sets often had the 25m 80m etc Broadcast and Amateur bands marked and the scales in MHz, Actually Mc/s, just looking at the big Pye 39JH/E here. Nine SW bands, but of course the LW and MW are marked in Metres.
Most UK AM/FM sets had metres for LW/MW and Mc/s for VHF.
Another Pye I have here has metres for LW & MW. It has SEVEN SW bands, calibrated in Mc/s and labelled S1, S2, 31m, 25m, 19m , 16m and 13m.

Last edited by Mike. Watterson; 23rd Jul 2019 at 7:05 pm.
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Old 23rd Jul 2019, 7:11 pm   #37
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Default Re: MW Station Numbers (Wave Lengths)

Kalee - blame my memory-the f.c. valve in the Philco was an ECH39 - I may even still have it somewhere!
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