Late 405 line only sets used in the 1980's & beyond.

[Richard_FM]

To connect with the thread on surviving early colour sets, I was wondering how common it was for later 405 only sets to survive until the switch off of the 405 line service & into preservation.

While early colour sets tended to be large & only really suitable for a lounge, by the early-mid 1960s 405 line sets were available in a portable size suitable for use in a bedroom or kitchen, & kept in use long after 625 line sets were common.

I imagine the transistorised 405 line only sets (or upgradeable dual standards that went unconverted) could survive into the mid 1980s without much professional attention.

[mickash]

I remember being called out to one of our rental customers to tune their TV to Channel 4. This was a very common job during the run up to the station starting in November 1982.
On being shown the set I relised that the call couldn't be completed as it was a 405 only TV. I advised the lady to call into the shop as she would need to get a new TV.
I hadn't realised we still had any 405 sets still out on rental. It must have been a reliable set as none of us could remember visiting to repair it in the past.
I don't think the customer did have the set replaced at this point as I didn't deliver a new one and also didn't see it come back into stock.

To answer the original post, I don't think there were many 405 only sets in general use in the 80s.There were a few people in the Matlock area that had to rely on 405 only into the 80s. (They had dual standard sets in anticipation though) The steep valleys blocked out 625 lines UHF from the main transmitters and local relay transmitters were slow to be built.
In fact there are still quite a few surviving 405 line aerials in the Matlock Bath area.

[Hybrid tellies]

It was the same around the Bath area. There were a few UHF 625 blackspots where because of surrounding hills a few communities could not receive UHF 625 television either from the main Mendip transmitter or the local Bathampton transmitter.

We kept these customers happy by maintaining their older dual standard black and white televisions, RBM A640's and BRC 1400's right up until 405 switch off in 1985, 1982 for Bath, . Not sure what happened after that but I think they were looking to installing a self help transmitter.

After the 405 line transmitters at Bathampton were switched off we had quite a few 405 line only tv's come in for repair for loss of signal. We had to gently break the news to these customers that they needed to buy a new telly.

[Studio263]

BRC 980 portables were in use until the bitter end, I remember seeing a lot of them at the car boots just after the service closed. They'd have been less than 20 years old at that stage.

[Welsh Anorak]

Agreed - the local auction house was flooded with those 980s when the switch-off came. The next day a steady stream of disgruntled customers arrived...

[AC/HL]

I believe these were given to colour subscribers in the early days when only BBC2 was in colour. Some at least were made in the Baird factory using a track brought up from (Enfield?)

[G6Tanuki]

The 'classic' way for old tellies to live on was in kids'/students' bedrooms where they generally served as monitors for computers/games-consoles.

I don't recall any computers/video-games of the era that had a 405-line band-I/III modulator.

By the late-70s/early-80s everyone expected colour. And new small(ish) colour portables/transportables from China/Taiwan/Eastern Europe were cheap. I don't recall anyone continuing to use a 405-line-only (or even a dual-standard) mono set by the end of the 70s.

[The teleman]

When I was a young lad my grandparents had a pye vt4 that was used until about 1965 then it was replaced with a pye 31f that was only ever used on 405 until about 1980 when it was replaced with colour set an ITT CVC5.

My parents had a mcmichael mp17 until about 1964 when it was replaced with a GEC Electra 2001dst again only ever used on 405 until 1972 when we got our first colour set a GEC C2103

Fond memories of all of these sets

[Heatercathodeshort]

Yes the 980 portables. I had around 5 brought in days after the close down and a single Philips 17TG100U from a customer just across the road from the shop. Other than that, no difficulties.
They can only have been watching BBC as the ITA Croydon transmitter had almost collapsed weeks before the switch off. There was a massive hum bar across the picture and no sound! I have a VHS recording of it somewhere. You can just hear the words 'Beulah Hill is now closing down' through the mush. The end of an amazing era. John.

[slidertogrid]

Late 1970's was around the last 405 sets I remember seeing, mostly used as second sets. Sometimes a dual standard set was used on 405 because it was easier to get a signal. BBC1 on 405 could be received perfectly in Peterborough on a length of wire. Anglia needed an aerial but a bit of an old one chucked on top of a wardrobe would usually get a fair picture.
There was plenty of old ones kicking around as the ring road was going in at the time and there was plenty of houses and being pulled down, also the prefabs were being cleared so lots of stuff to scrounge!
UHF needed a proper aerial, usually on the roof which not everyone could afford for a second set.
My grandparents had one of the last 405 only sets I can remember seeing, a 21" Dynatron which was kept until they had a colour set in around 1976/77.
It was passed on to a neighbour's son who took it with him to university.
A couple of family members had 405 portables as caravan sets in Hunstanton but I am sure they had gone by the late 70's as second hand colour sets had become affordable.

[Studio263]

Something else that no mid to late 80s car boot was complete without was a good choice of Perdio Portarama MkIIs. These were normally in very good condition as they were cool running and not that old, but completely useless then of course. I only ever saw one MkIII (dual standard), but the MkIIs were everywhere.

By the end of the 80s the dual standard portables began to appear; a few Sony TV9-90UBs cropped up but as they still looked quite modern they were either expensive or completely knackered looking (or both). Philips T-Vette 11s were also in evidence, always with the mains lead missing and dated looking by then. I never saw any of the more exotic dual standard portables, like KB VC11s or GEC Crystal 13s, but when the BRC 980s ran out they were replaced with endless 1590s and 1591s; still good saleable sets and worth buying if you could get them for a couple of pounds.

[Welsh Anorak]

The 1590/1 were good sellers, especially in the 12" version as the CRTs were far better than the pretty 14" version, and customers liked the push buttons.
Of course in an auction you needed to keep your wits about you or you ended up with a 1580, lots of valves and a red face...

[pastyboy]

In the mid 80's I used to work in a tv shop and don't remember ant 405 line sets coming in and used regularly to get sets from the tips. Don't remember seeing any 405 only sets there - few DS mono sets and plenty of thorn 1500, 3000, 8000 and 9000's most of which used to be got going sold via a postcard in a corner shop window ! A few 405 sets turned up on my doorstep from a local builder when he discovered them in lofts !

Re Glyns comment on the 1580 - they are the ones you can't get now - that headphone socket gives it away !

[Studio263]

Originally Posted by pastyboy

Re Glyns comment on the 1580 - they are the ones you can't get now - that headphone socket gives it away !

And that the slats on the loudspeaker grille go the other way, which looks odd once you are used to the 1590.

[music-centre]

I had a Bush ( Murphy possibly?) 405 only TV used up to the shutdown,not as a main set though, cant remember the actual model number but very similar to a TV125 - should have been dual standard of course but this one definitely didnt have the UHF tuner fitted and the UHF panel that plugged in.It was a large set probably 23" with a shiny Mahoghany colour cabinet.

I can remember using it on the last days before the shutdown, then it was taken to the dump! A shame though as it was one of those sets that had been hardly used,unmarked and a really bright sharp picture.
Steve.

[Welsh Anorak]

Wasn't there a statistic that on shutdown there were 16,000 405-only sets in use? Sounds as unlikely as the phenomenal amount of black and white sets in use as main TVs today...

[ntscuser]

I don't think the issue was that they were 405-only but rather there was no UHF reception at that time in those locations?

[Welsh Anorak]

That sounds more likely, and also the sets in use were more likely to be dual standards - after all the youngest of these would still have been around 15 years old. However the impression given was that these were VHF only models.
Perhaps people were digging their old 405-line sets out of the loft hoping for a free upgrade. "Well, it worked before you switched off the transmissions so what are you going to do about it?"

[Richard_FM]

I've heard to some dual standards having just 2 625 line presets, which was OK when Channel 4 eventually came along, but having to retune to get BBC1 & ITV every time was too much of a faf for most owners of the survivors.

[Tazman1966]

This was the case in the Rank A640 chassis as used in a whole load of models such as the Bush TV161 etc but you could set the multiband tuner to whatever permutations of systems that you liked by means of reversible and interchangeable plates. On mine, the top 3 buttons are set to 625 line UHF band IV & V, button 4 is 405 line VHF band III, and the bottom two are 405 line VHF Band I.

Here it is in action a few weeks ago not long after I restored it. Shame about the worn out legends on the front escutcheon.