|
Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc. |
|
Thread Tools |
19th Sep 2018, 6:00 pm | #1 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 5
|
Reel to reel tapes
I am planning to get a Japanese recorder such as Akai 4000DS (boyhood dream!) but I'm a bit worried about the availability of tapes. I've heard that modern studio 'back coated' 1/4 inch tape is not suitable for these domestic machines. Is this true? Would I be better getting old tapes of e-bay (avoiding those that shed coating)
Thanks Alan |
19th Sep 2018, 8:26 pm | #2 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 3,657
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
Firstly, if you're fishing in that pool. go for a Sony TC377 or 399, which has features the Akai lacks, such as servo back-tension and a proper speed change, as opposed to the capstan sleeve on the Akai.
Neither machine uses pressure pads, so matt-backed tape will be OK. Best to use long play rather than standard, as this is more supple and will sit better against the heads. |
19th Sep 2018, 8:53 pm | #3 |
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wembley, Middlesex
Posts: 7,219
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
Another good machine of this era is the Tandberg. Very well built, properly serviced they will last a long time.
I agree with Ted, the Akai was never as good as the sony and uses IC's which are now impossible to obtain. |
19th Sep 2018, 9:14 pm | #4 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 5
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
We had a Tanberg in school for recording BBC radio!
Just seen a 9000x. Any good? |
19th Sep 2018, 9:51 pm | #5 |
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,787
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
The best tape to use with 70s and 80s Japanese domestic machines is unquestionably the formulations produced by Maxell and TDK at that time. These are no longer made (as far as I know anyway) but there is plenty of lightly used secondhand stuff around on eBay and elsewhere. These tapes haven't deteriorated with age if stored properly. The SP (1200' on a 7" reel) and LP (1800') formulations will normally give the best results and are very robust.
Beware that all old tape recorders have maintenance issues, and the closer to the professional end of the market they are, the more hours they are likely to have done and the more expensive and difficult they will be to fix. |
19th Sep 2018, 10:26 pm | #6 |
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wembley, Middlesex
Posts: 7,219
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
If its the one on Ebay, then thats 1/2 track not 1/4 track which the Akai and Sony are.
|
19th Sep 2018, 11:32 pm | #7 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Liss, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 1,870
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
If you want to buy new tape then Recording The Masters now produce tapes with the old BASF formulations - LPR35 is probably the one to go for with the sort of machine you are looking at. More info can be found at http://www.tapecity.co.uk/acatalog/0.25--Tape-1-1.html
They're not cheap now - I remember paying £3.50 per 7" reel of Maxell back in the 1980's. |
20th Sep 2018, 2:28 am | #8 |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Derby, UK.
Posts: 7,735
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
As an Akai 4000DS mk. II owner myself, I feel a sort of duty to defend the machine The Akai machines have a beautiful, elegant functional simplicity to their appearance, where the Sony machines are full of awkward, slightly ugly angles. Someone has put together a work-around for the "unobtainium" preamp ICs used in the Akai 4000DS mk. I, so it's not the end of the world. A more serious issue is the mechanism uses cams made out of a cheap alloy that can be prone to cracking. Many are fine, but some just have a tendency to break up.
One thing is certain, though: once you have used a three-head tape recorder, you will never, ever want to go back to using two heads again (barring certain scenarios with multi-track recording, where you want the new signal to align precisely with the existing ones ..... but that's a different situation). But you will need to get a head demagnetiser, since the separate playback head is getting no self-demagnetising effect from the recording bias. Otherwise, you might find your tapes getting almost imperceptibly quieter every time you listen to them ..... Magnetised tape heads really are not something you want to find out about the way I once did
__________________
If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments. |
20th Sep 2018, 10:39 am | #9 | |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 5
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
Quote:
Alan |
|
20th Sep 2018, 11:30 am | #10 |
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,787
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
Half track stereo is basically a professional standard. It produces better results than quarter track, but obviously uses twice as much tape. You should assess any half track machine carefully - it may have sat unused in a college storeroom, but equally it may have been hammered for many years in a radio studio.
Half track stereo machines rarely support speeds less than 3.75ips and would have been mostly used at 7.5 or even 15ips. |
20th Sep 2018, 12:04 pm | #11 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire, UK.
Posts: 469
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
Quote:
There's no reason not to use back coated tape with domestic machines such as the Akai 4000 series or the Sony TC3xx. I've owned examples of both. But there's no real benefit to you in back coated tape either. As mentioned Recording The Masters LP35 tape is basically the old BASF formula from the 70s and 80s and will not let you down. Also search eBay for "vintage" Maxell, BASF, Zonal tapes. I've had good luck with TDK Audua tape but other say avoid it. Bear in mind that some tapes (Often Ampex) from the 70s are known for "sticky shed syndrome" where they shed oxide and stick to your heads. A myth that this is to do with back coating, it is due to a change in binder material in the 70s when whale oil was no longer available. |
|
20th Sep 2018, 12:10 pm | #12 | |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lund, Sweden
Posts: 1,631
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
Quote:
Another problem with Tandbergs is that the pinch rollers invariably need replacement as the rubber they used did not last and tends to crack with age. Not really a major problem as there are refurbishing services available, but something that needs to be factored in. Apart from these niggles I second that the three motor Tandbergs are very reliable, although perhaps not overly sophisticated mechanically. For instance, the logic control on the 9100X has no idea of tape tension etc during braking, and activates the solenoids and motors for fixed periods of time in order to stop the tape. It does work reliably though. |
|
20th Sep 2018, 1:04 pm | #13 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 3,657
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
Quarter track, used carefully, is fine for recording radio programmes. The signal-to-noise ratio is about 3db worse than half track, but still entirely adequate. LF crosstalk very occasionally becomes audible, but at sensible levels isn't a problem. Poor spooling can lead to edge damage and dropouts, and here matt backed tape, which spools better than smooth backed, helps.
|
20th Sep 2018, 3:48 pm | #14 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 8,302
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
Check for old 7" 1800' stock at Studiospares. Or go for imports from USA or Japan.
__________________
Edward. |
20th Sep 2018, 4:06 pm | #15 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 5
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
Ok, here's another question (and thanks so far for all your help). Some of the radio programs I would like to record are up to 3 hours long (classical music), if I use a LP 7" tape at 1 7/8ips I should get 3 hours but is the quality likely to be good enough?
|
20th Sep 2018, 4:41 pm | #16 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 3,657
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
Marginal, I'd say - the wow performance is likely to be not quite good enough, and the hiss will be obtrusive, unless you go the Dolby B route. Tape quality is critical, too, as dropouts can become obtrusive. 3 3/4 is, to my mind, the sensible minimum for serious listening. Off-hand, I can't think of a work which runs over 90' without a break of some kind - perhaps Parsifal Act 3? If you want to cover more than 90', it's double play or bigger reels.
|
20th Sep 2018, 4:58 pm | #17 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 5
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
Yes, I think you are right Ted. If I have a 1/4 track machine I assume I can record on a 1800 foot tape at 3 3/4 ips for 90 mins then turn the tape over and record for another 90 min?
|
20th Sep 2018, 5:08 pm | #18 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 7,484
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
The only way is to use triple play tape at 3.75 ips. A 7" reel will give 190 min at 3.75ips.
In a more general sense, unless you are fairly technical and are prepared to put up with some rather fiddly work, and pay a fair bit for media, I would not recommend the reel to reel route for recording. There are modern alternatives which give comparable and/or better sound quality and greater convenience. It's neither a cheap nor a simple hobby (but once you're hooked that's it!)
__________________
Regards, Ben. |
20th Sep 2018, 5:23 pm | #19 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK.
Posts: 2,801
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
Akai 4000DS MkII is preferable to MKI as it has discrete transistor electronics, and a
pull mono facility to mute one channel. If archiving of tapes is intended, to prevent print through (i.e. pre-echo) the tape should be played and not rewound and 2 track stereo (or 4 track stereo using one side only) is to be preferred. This problem is more pronounced on thinner tapes. As to tape types, Sony are as good as others from Japan (had their own tape factory). |
20th Sep 2018, 5:30 pm | #20 |
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,787
|
Re: Reel to reel tapes
If you want to record at slow speeds you should *definitely* go for Maxell/TDK tapes. They perform particularly well.
The other comments are right though - 1.875ips isn't a hifi speed on any R2R recorder, unlike cassette decks where everything is optimised for that speed. |