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Vintage Amateur and Military Radio Amateur/military receivers and transmitters, morse, and any other related vintage comms equipment.

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Old 12th Jul 2018, 6:07 pm   #41
jamesinnewcastl
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Default Re: Lancaster Bomber Radio signals and communications.

Bob

Make sure that you are using the correct phonetic alphabet - I'm not sure when it changed but the earlier ones were different to Romeo Oscar Tango etc.

I have more stuff in printed AP that I will have to scan but here are some more bits - looks like the Pilot did most of the chatting to the airfield!

And of course the Q-Codes (How did they memorise all of them?)


Cheers
James
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Old 12th Jul 2018, 8:18 pm   #42
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Lancaster Bomber Radio signals and communications.

James,

I believe under normal conditions the pilot would have done all of the chatting to the airfield using what is referred to above as 'the R/T set', i.e. the TR9/TR1196/TR1143/SCR-522 which is under his control. The Wireless Operator would take no part in this activity, except in an emergency such as the pilot's set being u/s.

Andy
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Old 12th Jul 2018, 9:35 pm   #43
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesinnewcastl View Post
Make sure that you are using the correct phonetic alphabet - I'm not sure when it changed but the earlier ones were different to Romeo Oscar Tango etc.

I have more stuff in printed AP that I will have to scan but here are some more bits - looks like the Pilot did most of the chatting to the airfield!

And of course the Q-Codes (How did they memorise all of them?)
Hi James, thank you this is excellent info, not sure what you mean with "AP' but Id be pleased to see anything else you may have, Thanks again, Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0FYA Andy View Post
I believe under normal conditions the pilot would have done all of the chatting to the airfield using what is referred to above as 'the R/T set', i.e. the TR9/TR1196/TR1143/SCR-522 which is under his control. The Wireless Operator would take no part in this activity, except in an emergency such as the pilot's set being u/s.
Hi Andy, thanks for the clarification, do you know if there was a protocol as to who spoke to who? Bob
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Old 12th Jul 2018, 10:11 pm   #44
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Default Re: Lancaster Bomber Radio signals and communications.

Hi Bob

A.P. stands for Aircraft (Airforce?) Publication - everything pretty much in the RAF had a manual it seems.

The stuff I'll send you is very detailed about who says what to whom. There was an officer in charge of flying control and his duties are well defined as well as the equipment, men and tasks of the rest of the ground crew.

Cheers
James
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Old 12th Jul 2018, 10:21 pm   #45
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Default Re: Lancaster Bomber Radio signals and communications.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesinnewcastl View Post
A.P. stands for Aircraft (Airforce?) Publication - everything pretty much in the RAF had a manual it seems.

The stuff I'll send you is very detailed about who says what to whom. There was an officer in charge of flying control and his duties are well defined as well as the equipment, men and tasks of the rest of the ground crew.
James that sounds fantastic, exactly the kind of detail Im looking for, can't wait to see what you send...Thanks again, Bob
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Old 12th Jul 2018, 11:26 pm   #46
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Default Re: Lancaster Bomber Radio signals and communications.

Hi Bob

I've just been rooting though my collection of paper APs and I have AP 1970 - Standard Notes for Wireless Operators which has some low level stuff such as the Message Pad and how to fill it in and The Seven Deadly SDins of W/Ops on M/F D/F, What to do in a storm and how to charge your accumulator.

And another phonetic alphabet...

I'l have to scan these so they will come later.

Cheers
James
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 9:54 am   #47
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Lancaster Bomber Radio signals and communications.

One thing which surprises me is how few of these documents even acknowledge the existence of the 'pilot's R/T set', (or Command Set in American parlance), let alone describe its operation. I just read through my copy of the Lancaster 'Pilot's Notes' and found nothing!

I've also been reading the AP for the A1134 Intercom Amplifier, and trying to distil the functionality of the key-switch, as opposed to which contact is fed to which transformer etc. and conclude the following -

The Intercom Amplifier has a three-way key-switch, with positions A, B and C. The normal position is B.
In position A the output of the R1155 is switched to the WOp’s headphones only, and his microphone and headphones are isolated from the Intercom circuit. The rest of the crew remain connected to the Intercom.
In position B, the WOp is also connected to the Intercom, and the output of the R1155 can be heard by all the crewmembers.
In position C all speech on the Intercom is connected to the T1154 transmitter.

Note that this has no effect on the pilot's R/T set, however it would allow the pilot to communicate with the airfield using the T1154 in the event of failure of his set. Obviously the WOp would have to tune his T1154/R1154 to the tower frequency and put the key-switch to position C.
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 3:55 pm   #48
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Default Re: Lancaster Bomber Radio signals and communications.

Hi Andy

The Stirlings Pilots notes mention the intercom socket, the remote control for the TR9 along with the Mixer switch. It doesn't mention much in detail.

All of the more detailed documents I have all relate to the pilot operating his radio, very little about the W/O.

Nothing mentions whether or not the W/O comms are voice or morse. I've not studied the radios I admit, is there some word that signifys the use of morse perhaps?

Cheers
James
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 4:05 pm   #49
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Lancaster Bomber Radio signals and communications.

James,
R/T signifies voice, whereas W/T signifies Morse.
My understanding is that the Wireless Operator usually used Morse, although voice was available to him.
Morse wasn't available on the pilot's R/T set - understandable as he wasn't trained to use Morse, and would struggle to use a Morse key whilst flying the aircraft.

Andy
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 5:30 pm   #50
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Default Re: Lancaster Bomber Radio signals and communications.

Hi Andy

That's interesting - there is certainly a morse key on the W/O desk in the Stirling. I have yet to think about the W/O any deeper for my documentary.

The pilot on the Stirling did have one morse key - well two in fact. One operated the upper and lower ident lights and the other the formation lights. Not quite sure how long a message he would have had to signal.

The Pilot seems to have been a very busy person!


Cheers
James
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 7:42 pm   #51
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Lancaster Bomber Radio signals and communications.

James, OK, yes, the pilot of all the 'heavies', and maybe a lot of other aircraft, could flash the ident lights using Morse, but I suspect the 'message content' might have been quite limited! I don't recollect reading about his use of this facility, maybe again just provided to cover emergency scenarios?

The more we think about this, the more questions pop up!

Andy
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 9:22 pm   #52
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Default Re: Lancaster Bomber Radio signals and communications.

Hi Andy

I've read that the identification lights were used on or landing on the airfield, With R/T not being used the ident lights were a means of signalling intention and acknowledgement. And I suspect when being shot at by your own side with colours of the day.

Cheers
James
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Old 14th Jul 2018, 9:14 am   #53
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Lancaster Bomber Radio signals and communications.

As the ident lights have fixed colours, I don't see they could be associated with 'colours of the day', I think these were displayed using Very Pistol flares of the appropriate colour.
I believe firing the Very Pistol was also another task of the Wireless Operator, so relevant to this thread.

Andy
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Old 14th Jul 2018, 2:47 pm   #54
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Default Re: Lancaster Bomber Radio signals and communications.

Hi Andy

Now I have to wonder why the three ident lamps were all different colours? The ident light on the top was white.

The W/O would probably also have operated the Aldis lamp, not sure if they always had one but if he was 'Mr Morse' it would be right up his street.

Now I'm wondering if he did that much?


Cheers
James
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Old 15th Jul 2018, 9:33 pm   #55
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Default Re: Lancaster Bomber Radio signals and communications.

Bob, I have:

The Lancaster Story (Peter Jacobs) -Silverdale Books-, and
Lancaster (Christopher Chant) -Paragon-

If you don't have these I will look out any details of WOp duties in my copies.

(I finally found out yesterday how, when and where my Grandfather's Blenheim force-landed in 1940. Bizarrely when I input the serial number I found it was one of the most photographed Blenheims ever, and found 5 images straight away, mainly with German personnel swarming all over it. None of them are smiling, which is nice. Not so nice is the fact that the 109's that shot it down made a strafing pass following the forced landing. All crew survived. The Luftwaffe pilot responsible was shot down and killed over Margate 9 weeks later. I found out all this information in less than a day!)

Dave
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