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| Vintage Test Gear and Workshop Equipment For discussions about vintage test gear and workshop equipment such as coil winders. |
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18th Dec 2020, 7:07 am
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#21 |
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Triode
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Nis, Serbia.
Posts: 28
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
I am beginning to think that everything is fine with the components, and that only the pots mentioned in the first post needs some fine adjustment...
Noopy, today I will be changing c6 tantalum, as I have no experience in testing them for leakage and i don`t have small alligator/hook clips for inboard current testing.... |
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18th Dec 2020, 7:23 am
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#22 |
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Tetrode
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Eichstätt, Germany
Posts: 88
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
Changing C6 will be no harm.
Sometimes we see problems where everything works fine... 
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18th Dec 2020, 10:45 am
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#23 |
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Triode
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Nis, Serbia.
Posts: 28
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
Somehow replacing c6 with same but new capacitor gave psu higher voltage on unloaded -5v rail than on +5v. Difference is small but it was reversed when I checked it last time (+5v was higher)
It seems also that replacing c6 gave linear transistor on Q1 tolerable temperature with no load at 40c.(was 100c)... Fingers crossed. |
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18th Dec 2020, 10:17 pm
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#24 |
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Tetrode
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Eichstätt, Germany
Posts: 88
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
Perhaps the difference is so small it´s irrelevant?
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19th Dec 2020, 5:45 am
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#25 |
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Triode
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Nis, Serbia.
Posts: 28
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
This is the update...
It goes to all calibration steps and displays horizontal trace on end... Difference is noticeable only when at load By that what I mean is voltage at about 0.3 volts lower on -5 rail and at that time i can hear noticeable squeaking sound coming from the PSU ( it is like capacitor wanting to retire OR something like high voltage arcing) don`t know for sure) But all of that is when powered on and connected to the unit...+12v and -12v,+5v are spot on... At that time Q1 is having a hard time at about 70c Finally found and replaced blown tantalum capacitor that I have mentioned earlier - it was on one of the CCD boards. By the way Noppy thanks so much for informing me that the unit does not have missing trigger board ... I was feeling so blue last night when I thought it might not be there...
Last edited by Roberts981; 19th Dec 2020 at 6:07 am. |
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19th Dec 2020, 1:06 pm
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#26 | |
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Nonode
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resolven, Wales; and Bristol, England
Posts: 2,608
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
Quote:
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Richard Index: recursive loop: see recursive loop |
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19th Dec 2020, 1:44 pm
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#27 |
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Tetrode
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Eichstätt, Germany
Posts: 88
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
In my view -4,7V (+/-100mV?) should be good enough...
Have you checked the yellow-brownish X-/Y-capacitors in the power supply? They often have cracks and soak humidity until they finally die...
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19th Dec 2020, 1:53 pm
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#28 |
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Tetrode
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Eichstätt, Germany
Posts: 88
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
Hm... Service Manual says -5V +/-50mV... Don't know whether that is really necessary...
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19th Dec 2020, 5:13 pm
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#29 | |
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Triode
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Nis, Serbia.
Posts: 28
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
Quote:
Yes I replaced all Rifa capacitors with x and y class pp. I do suspect quality of capacitors for PSU I bought at local store. They are Jamicon so not really the same league as Philips and ELNA ones I removed from psu...[/I][/I] |
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19th Dec 2020, 11:34 pm
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#30 |
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Triode
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Nis, Serbia.
Posts: 28
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
I have just tested -5v rail with dummy load
with 3.3 ohm resistance it gave -5.4v, with 0.55 ohm resistance it gave the same -5.4v and that`s about 9 amperes of power, so i am guessing that to put it at -4.7v it has to draw a lot of current? so what are your thoughts on how much this rail consumes power? Last edited by Roberts981; 20th Dec 2020 at 12:04 am. |
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19th Dec 2020, 11:39 pm
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#31 |
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Tetrode
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Eichstätt, Germany
Posts: 88
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
In my 4074 the -5V rail consumes 9,8A.
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20th Dec 2020, 5:39 am
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#32 | |
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Triode
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Nis, Serbia.
Posts: 28
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
Quote:
Mine cosumes 240 watts of power from mains... |
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20th Dec 2020, 8:14 am
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#33 |
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Tetrode
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Eichstätt, Germany
Posts: 88
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
Sorry, right now I have all my 409x in the attic.
Service Manual says 250Wmax for the 4074. Since the power supply is the same 240W sounds plausible.
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20th Dec 2020, 9:08 am
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#34 |
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Triode
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Nis, Serbia.
Posts: 28
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
Well it tries to draw more than 250w at stratup, but it looks like it have current limitation, because after a minute it lowers it to 240w...
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20th Dec 2020, 12:51 pm
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#35 |
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Tetrode
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Eichstätt, Germany
Posts: 88
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
But that could be caused by warmup...
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20th Dec 2020, 9:44 pm
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#36 |
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Triode
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Nis, Serbia.
Posts: 28
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
I decided to raise the voltage with adjustment pot and assemble the unit...
Here goes auto setup for comparing the units if someone restores one in future: https://youtu.be/iEHh9MHSg8M Last edited by Roberts981; 20th Dec 2020 at 9:49 pm. |
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20th Dec 2020, 9:53 pm
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#37 |
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Tetrode
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Eichstätt, Germany
Posts: 88
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
It took me some time but now I realized you have a D1052. That is a Gould 4092 (2ch / 800MS/s) not a Gould 4096 (2ch / 800MS/s, alternative 1ch / 1,6GS/s).
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20th Dec 2020, 10:22 pm
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#38 |
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Triode
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Nis, Serbia.
Posts: 28
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
Well then, it took me more until now to realize I had 4092.
Still worth the effort? I really hope it is... |
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21st Dec 2020, 7:27 am
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#39 | |
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Tetrode
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Eichstätt, Germany
Posts: 88
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
Quote:
 Some historical facts: The 4074 was ready in 1986. Due to some production problems (first time SMT for Gould) the 4074 was re-released in 1987. (Related versions: 4072 and 4071) At this time the 4074 was the fastest scope in the market (regarding sampling with 8Bit). There was the HP 54111D with 2GS/s but its resolution was only 6Bit. All the "faster" scopes worked with random sampling. HP had a lot of them. Unfortunatelly I only have prices of 1991. At that time with todays money you would have to pay 30k€ for the 4084. But in 1991 there were already competitors. I´m sure in 1987 the 4074 was much more expensive. In 1988 Tektronix offered the 2440 with 300MHz bandwith and 500MS/s sampling rate. In 1989 Philips offered the PM3323 with the same specifications. Gould did a small update and released the 4084 (+4082). With the help of a small board they were able to connect two channels to sample with 800MS/s. The bigger update was the 4094. Gould modified the whole input stage and the trigger circuit to get 200MHz bandwith. The main part of the 40xx, the CCD, is always the same: MS1007A. Because of that the 40xx can´t do more than 4x 400MS/s. Now Gould offered a lot of variants: 4072A, a 4072 with 200MHz bandwith 4074A, a 4074 with 200MHz bandwith 4090, a 4082 with 200MHz bandwith (not the best naming?) 4092, a 2-channel scope with 200MHz bandwith and 800MS/s for both channels (that´s the explanation for the name of the 4090) 4094, the main scope, a 4084 with 200Mhz bandwith 4096, here you can connect all four CCDs and get 1 channel 1,6GS/s A lot of the scopes were also sold by Siemens. Different branding, 100% the same technology.
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21st Dec 2020, 2:50 pm
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#40 |
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Triode
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Nis, Serbia.
Posts: 28
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Re: Siemens D1052 oscilloscope (Gould DSO 4096).
Can u imagine their effort at the time, they had put it in... So here is the result output of two resurrected oscilloscopes put in use after quite some time from yesterday. Other one "Hameg" is analogue. Signal is generated by GM328 *pwm 10bit* component tester. This is the first time I have came in contact with oscilloscopes so I do not know much about results. I have done only auto calibration. Also here is the sticker from one of the boards from D1052. It seems that they are identical. Might be different software though. Can u share your thoughts with their output? If it is possible with such a signal.
Last edited by Roberts981; 21st Dec 2020 at 3:05 pm. |
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