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Old 6th Nov 2010, 7:22 pm   #1
twocvbloke
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Default Music-on-Hold...

I'm just looking about at some of the PBXs on ebay, and I'm wondering whether the recommended Revelation, Inspiration or Pathway PBXs can support MOH, I know that for use off-grid (so to speak) that it'd be a completely useless feature, but, I'd kind of like to use it, cos I have PLENTY of Cheesy MIDI files, from games, free samples and custom made TV themes and other filed purloined from the web, I just think it'd be funny to have such music when putting the other phones on the system, or on the line input(s) on hold, just for fun...

I like Music-on-hold, if only the people on the other end of the phone would put something funny or cheesy on the system...
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Old 6th Nov 2010, 7:34 pm   #2
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

Hi,
As far as I am aware none of the PBX's that you mention can support MOH other than that which is generated internally by their own software.

For "customisable" external MOH you would need something like a (Nortel) Meridian Norstar, which is primarily designed to be used with its own system phones and although analogue terminal adapters (ATAs) can be obtained for these units, you would need one ATA for every POTS position that you required.

Another thing to be aware of is the licensing of copyrighted material if providing external MOH as each individual track requires a separate license; I have been reliably informed of this from someone who deals with copyright licensing as their day job! This is probably one of the reasons that even some larger companies use "plastic doorbell music" for their PBX MOH.

Regards
Andrew
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Old 6th Nov 2010, 7:52 pm   #3
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

Copyright, gets everywhere does that, you;d think that at least for a low-fi non-commercial use (if the system were connected to the telephone line that is) it wouldn't be a problem, but that's where the royalty-free samples can be useful I guess, I'm good at looping and altering them to make them sound unique...

I just had a look at BritishTelephones and for the Revelation, it says "dependant on software version", I presume that means a built-in job rather than a hook-up-to-a-CD player option...

As for the Meridian (lord how I hated using those!!! My first job was on a software support line that was using tired old Meridian phones, quite unreliable ones at that with poor volume and speech-pickup), I just saw one for sale for less than a tenner, no phones, just the CCU, usually people ask at least £100 for those...
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Old 6th Nov 2010, 8:44 pm   #4
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

Noticed a few Panasonic 624's on there .According to my install manual they can use either a user supplied source ,or their own internal ( cheesy tone source) .Phone needs are advisory of one display system phone on first( programming extension ) ,but all others can be POTS .( slt) .Also OLDER KXT 318/616 ,which are similar ( but older) systems ,can accept MOH from external source, but impedance of this input is low ,causing low levels on things like cheap CD players .A series -I can't remember about MOH ( and can't find my manuals at moment), but you do need various cards to take SLTs .SO they could prove dearer ,if you get one set up for system phones. ( If you can still get the single line cards) .
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Old 6th Nov 2010, 9:16 pm   #5
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

Quote:
Originally Posted by twocvbloke View Post
...I just had a look at BritishTelephones and for the Revelation, it says "dependant on software version", I presume that means a built-in job rather than a hook-up-to-a-CD player option... ...
The later Revelation software has 3 "On Hold" options, Silence, Beep or Music with announcement - all of these are internally generated by (presumably) an on - board chip, there is no capacity for connection of an external source device for MOH such as a CD player or MP3 player etc.

Andrew
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Old 6th Nov 2010, 9:37 pm   #6
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

Hmm, so, really high-end system, or Panasonic...

Actually, I've used a Panasonic KXT308, a computer co. in Nelson that I worked for has one, and I managed to fix a niggling fault on it that they had for years (clock changes, forwards and back, it seemed to throw a wobbler and go into Night mode all day), all it needed was a manual and the time setting properly, still in use as far as I know...

It did have a CD player attached to it, but I don't think it actually was playing anything, obviously working there I never actually got put on hold, so didn't know what the customers heard, and given how a few hung up even in a short space of time (some as impatient enough to hang up within 15 seconds), I guess it was silence...

Still, those sub-£10 Meridians look tempting, I'll just have to see what wednesday brings me financially, cos I'm itching to play with, I mean install and utilise, a phone system...
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Old 6th Nov 2010, 10:08 pm   #7
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

Hi,
If you do go down the Meridian Norstar route you will need at least two system phones to get any kind of use out of the PBX, including access to a programming manual and key overlays in order for you to program the PBX.
Also be aware that as the Norstar uses digital terminals the wiring to the line jacks is non - standard using (only) two data wires on terminals 3 and 4 to LJ2/3A extension type jacks.

For a good first "playaround" system the BT PBXs previously mentioned are OK, the Revelation being a little more fussy to program than the Inspiration and, once programmed, will work happily with standard POTS telephones.
I have a 3+12 Revelation, (configured as a 2+8) here at home in regular daily use, with one POTS line and one VOIP line.

Andrew
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Old 6th Nov 2010, 10:26 pm   #8
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

Looking at the seller of the Meridian systems, they also have the phones cheap too, if I got the kit from them I could probably get a CCU and 2x system phones for less than £30, obviously though, the cheap price makes me wonder as to the working condition of said items...

Hmm, key tops, that was another thing that the phones I used in my first job often had missing, at least all I needed was to use the Pickup (used headsets there), Hold and Transfer buttons, which were fairly faded of course, never really progressed to using any of the other buttons...

It's all making me wish I never sold that Revelation system I had 5 years ago, that didn't sell for much when I decided to get rid, should have kept it, but still, you live and learn...

The VOIP thing has reminded me of another item I've looked at, these Premicell things, basically a GSM to PSTN terminal, and reading about them, they can be hooked up to PBXs as a single line, could be useful, if they were affordable...
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Old 6th Nov 2010, 11:11 pm   #9
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

The VOIP adapter that I use is a Pluscom VOIP SIP ATA, like the BT Revelation PBX, they are a bit fiddly to initially set up though

Andrew
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Old 6th Nov 2010, 11:24 pm   #10
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

You could go for a BT Versatility system, you can get a music on hold module for those that plugs straight into a cd player/ipod and you can program the system using a pc/laptop or via there v8 system phone.
They support standard phones and the basic system has 8 extensions
The downside is that the analogue PSTN module for them is rather expensive.
I am currently using one at home and its got some good functionality

Regards
Luke
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Old 7th Nov 2010, 9:44 am   #11
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

You know, "BT Versatility" is sticking in my head like poo on a shoe for some reason, I keep looking at them, but then notice the price, which makes me think again!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndiiT View Post
The VOIP adapter that I use is a Pluscom VOIP SIP ATA, like the BT Revelation PBX, they are a bit fiddly to initially set up though

Andrew
Not sure why, but the description below it describes it as being a USB 56k Dial-up Modem....
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Old 7th Nov 2010, 10:25 am   #12
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

Quote:
Originally Posted by twocvbloke View Post
Actually, I've used a Panasonic KXT308
Yes, the 308 and 616 support external MOH, I have a 308 at home (with a faulty extension '18', which is why I picked it up). I'm sure the newer models have this too. The Alcatel system at the company I used to work at had external MOH as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndiiT View Post
Another thing to be aware of is the licensing of copyrighted material if providing external MOH as each individual track requires a separate license; I have been reliably informed of this from someone who deals with copyright licensing as their day job!
Ouch! In NZ it's a flat annual fee to APRA, about NZ$125 per year for up to five lines, going up from there.
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Old 7th Nov 2010, 11:04 am   #13
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

Quote:
Originally Posted by arjoll View Post
Yes, the 308 and 616 support external MOH, I have a 308 at home (with a faulty extension '18', which is why I picked it up). I'm sure the newer models have this too. The Alcatel system at the company I used to work at had external MOH as well.
That's intriguing, cos the 308 I used had extension no's of 20 thru. 27, so line 18 didn't exist on that system...

I'd have thought that 2x numbers would be better suited to PBXs that have the possibility of LD dialling, and from what I've been told here, "1" can dial an earth recall, hence the use of "2", but that's just my thinking, I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong...

I dunno, even sleeping on it hasn't made me decide which system to get to start with, I just want something that I can mess about with the MOH, but like I say, have to wait until wednesday to see what I have to play with (although that may not be guaranteed, cos there's a vacuum cleaner for sale nearby for £70 that I'd love to get my hands on, so who knows!!!)...
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Old 7th Nov 2010, 12:02 pm   #14
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

Quote:
Originally Posted by twocvbloke View Post
...I'd have thought that 2x numbers would be better suited to PBXs that have the possibility of LD dialling, and from what I've been told here, "1" can dial an earth recall, ...
I think that 2x numbering was more of an early "industry standard" than anything else, that said there are numerous PBXs out there that can be configured for any desired numbering plan and some smaller ones which use single digit numbering beginning with 1, these are usually only 1 + 3 systems or similar though.

Digit 1 can be used for timed break recall; earth recall requires a physical signalling earth to be returned to the PBX (via separate recall switching) for indication/alert purposes.

Speaking of industry standards, '9' is commonly used to access an exchange line and '0' to access the PBX operator (if present), however on the continent these can often be transposed i.e, 0 for an exchange line and 9 for the PBX operator.

Andrew
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Old 7th Nov 2010, 12:26 pm   #15
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

I thought I'd probably get the recall one wrong, I knew it was one of the two, so it was a 50/50 chance...

All the differences between setups can be pretty confusing, just shows how little I know about them!!!

Last edited by Station X; 8th Nov 2010 at 5:41 pm. Reason: It is not necessary to quote the preceding post in full.
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Old 7th Nov 2010, 1:23 pm   #16
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

Okay, given in, I'm bidding on a Meridian CCU, connection box and two phones (ones with extra buttons, going from memory the Head-of-support fella in the office where I used to work had a similar phone on his desk and could program the CCU(s) from there), both M3820 phones, the CCU I'm not sure of the model, but it looks like the one here:

http://www.britishtelephones.com/norcomp.htm

And looking at that set of pictures made me bid on a connection box too, cos the CCU doesn't come with one in the listing...

I hope the phones are right though, cos that page says it uses 7000 series phones...
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Old 7th Nov 2010, 1:45 pm   #17
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

You will certainly need a connection box for your Norstar as this connects to the main module via a multi-way plug.

It is possible that 8000 series telephones can be used on this PBX but the standard issue were 7000 series (not to be confused with the GPO/BT 700 series)
I think that any programming has to be done from a 7324 or a 7310, as the 7208 and 7100 only have limited feature keys.

If you can also try and get hold of an ATA for your Norstar as this will increase its versatility.

Andrew
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Old 7th Nov 2010, 1:53 pm   #18
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndiiT View Post
You will certainly need a connection box for your Norstar as this connects to the main module via a multi-way plug.

It is possible that 8000 series telephones can be used on this PBX but the standard issue were 7000 series (not to be confused with the GPO/BT 700 series)
I think that any programming has to be done from a 7324 or a 7310, as the 7208 and 7100 only have limited feature keys.

If you can also try and get hold of an ATA for your Norstar as this will increase its versatility.

Andrew
What about the M3820's I'm bidding on? Are they compatible or are they for the other style Meridian system?

I dunno, you'd think that "a phone is a phone is a phone", but all these different numbers, it's confusing for sure....
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Old 7th Nov 2010, 2:57 pm   #19
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

If you've got a spare PC lying about, then get experimenting with Asterisk. It even comes supplied with some royalty-free "on hold" music.

Unless you want an actual "clicky-clicky" telephone exchange with moving parts, Asterisk is the only thing worth using. Proprietary PABXs, as you are discovering, have too many unnecessary (from the point of view of a user, not that of a manufacturer trying to discourage you from using anything made by a rival) restrictions.

If you aren't connecting to the PSTN then the use of copyrighted material for on-hold music in an internal system should constitute Fair Dealing. (At least, it will if two people on the jury say it does .....)
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Old 7th Nov 2010, 3:30 pm   #20
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Default Re: Music-on-Hold...

Yeah, I like real clicky-relay based systems, computers already do far too much for my liking (controlling cars, TVs, videos, DVDs, heck, even some vacuum cleaners are coming with computerised gadgetry!!!), I like real things that you can see working, rather than just a load of code on a computer doing things in the background...

I need to fic my other computer, cos it has the MIDIs on it that I want to use (got a couple of short samples I want to stretch out into a piece of music), as for "real" music though, my collection's not that vast...
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