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Old 10th Oct 2020, 5:25 pm   #81
Uncle Bulgaria
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

It's strange it's causing you such a hard time. I just used some solid core wire from the PICKit2, using the pinout attached, to the solderless breadboard and apart from having to select the PIC type from the menu it worked flawlessly. Start to finish on Windows 10 using version 2.61.00 of the software was less than two minutes. I had the USB supplying the power to the PIC.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 12:23 pm   #82
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Thanks for the link Terry, your target board looks a lot more understandable than the one that came with my PicKit3. I have attached pics of the target board with my alterations.
Yes UB, I do seem to be having difficulties with PIC programming. A lot of my troubles are down to the complicated MPLabs X software, which I am using on my Windows 7 laptop. Initially when I looked into the software, I was given internet advice that it would not run in Windows 10, somewhat wrongly! Going back to my earlier forays into programming PICS, I even went down the route of trying to do it in DOS on a Windows XP laptop! Back then I did not get as far as writing to the PIC, as I was having all manner of issues with language and correct protocols, which were OK for one series of chip but not another. Back then I gave up and threw in the towel but now would like to return to that at a later date. I am sure that once I get the PIC in this thread sorted out, I will be better placed to revisit my earlier projects. Also, I now have contact with some very valuable forum members who may be able to assist me. Of course that will be another new thread when the time arises.

In the mean time, I am awaiting the 18 pin zif socket to arrive. I have already got some stripboard to use as the target board. This is the type without holes, so I will only drill holes where needed and likewise only connect the required pins of the zif socket.
Dave
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 1:39 pm   #83
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

I can see why you can't program the PIC with that board, two sets of the jumpers are in the wrong place.

The one furthest away from the USB lead (J3) is correct.

J2 should match the jumper positioning of J3.

J1 closest to the USB lead - remove the 2 outside jumpers and leave the middle one.

Then you need to place the PIC in the right position - at the end away from the USB lead with pin 1 facing towards the centre of the adapter.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 2:35 pm   #84
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

This is the software I'm using. Perhaps they're different?
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 2:52 pm   #85
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Thanks again Terry, it makes me wonder if this board is the reason for so many internet blogs reporting similar troubles with their own projects with a lack of real solutions being offered. Anyway, I will proceed with my replacement target board and scrap the supplied one, thus hopefully saving any future confusion with the supplied board. Oh, I did not mention about the blue tape in my modification. It is simply there to prevent any shorting of the 2 unused USB data lines, as I was only using the USB as a convenient 5volt power source. Probably obvious to those in the know, but we do also have forum visitors who are less technically able and might not have realised. I have also noticed a second type of target board shown on the internet and it looks very much like the one in your previous link.
Dave
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 3:03 pm   #86
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Hello UB, saw your post just after returning my last one. Your screen pic is totally different to what I am trying to use.
Incidentally, MPLabs does not like the EPE magazine supplied hex code. It comes up with errors such as spaces within the hex code, I just ignored the MPLabs comments and just went straight to the program PIC sections. I reasoned that since the hex code was supplied by the EPE magazine, it should be fit for purpose, at least that was my theory. And on reflection MPLab X software might be why I have had so much trouble with past projects.
Dave
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 4:39 pm   #87
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

The software is what I downloaded when I made my PIC a couple of months ago, so it's current, though not updated as they now support the PICkit 3. As I've got a PICkit 2 I got it from here: https://www.microchip.com/Developmen...tails/pg164120 "PICkit 2 V2.61 Install A", at 3MB. It had no trouble with the hex file or installation on W10. Literally all I did was plug the five or so wires to the right pins on the PIC, browsed for the hex file, chose the right PIC model from the drop-down menu and pressed go. Two minutes, all done.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 5:29 pm   #88
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Thanks UB, I have just had a look at your provided link and thought that I would check the rest of the site for the PicKit3, which is what I have. Sadly as far as I can see the only offerings for the PicKit3 are all MPLab software, which is what I have. I also note that along with the PicKit2 not getting any software updates now, the same is true for the PicKit3 and recommendations are to now replace it with the PicKit4.
I don't know if the PicKit2 software will work with the PicKit3 at this stage but suspect that when the handshake happens it will spit it's dummy out with some kind of error message. I had a warning message when I connected my second PicKit3 asking if I was sure that I wanted to proceed because MPLab X had detected a different PicKit3 connected to the USB socket. They have some sort of serial number that the MPLab software seems to look for. In my opinion it seems that MPLab software puts every possible hurdle in the way before one can actually do what should be a fairly straight forward task. It certainly does not need all the over complication that is introduced, it should be a simple 2 or 3 mouse clicks to the 'voila moment', 'your PIC device has been successfully programmed'.
I will report back on how it goes on my next attempt, once my simpler target board is built. I know that I could try Terry's suggestion re the supplied board but I have now lost faith with this board and given that it's a double sided print with a lot hidden under the zif socket, I don't want to risk yet another chip at this stage. These chips are costing me about £3 each, which is not a fortune but is a total waste of money if every one of them gets written off due to what I think is a dodgy target board.
Dave
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 5:34 pm   #89
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

What does the target board do? I put jumpers stuffed up the socket of the PICkit 2 unit that was plugged into the computer, with the other ends soldered to some leftover tulip sockets from a mini-DIN which were plugged onto the relevant PIC legs. Is it possible to take away some of the hardware between the PICkit unit plugged into the computer and the PIC?

It seems like Microchip are shooting themselves in the foot if it's this hard to use their products with their own hardware. Who's going to bother?!

If you'd rather put that £3 into the beer fund, my offer to send you a programmed one still stands.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 5:53 pm   #90
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Be aware there seem to be lots of fake or copies of the pickit3 programmers, found this out after being in the same situation as you last year. tracked down a genuine microchips version and it worked first time.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 8:17 pm   #91
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

I have used the 'Old' version of MPLAB for many years and every time I try to drag myself into the modern era by installing MPLAB X I usually potter about with it for a few minutes and sigh 'Nope, I really don't like it' and uninstall it again. I just can't get on with it at all.

That said, even 'original' MPLAB is mega-overkill for what you are attempting to do, namely programme one chip with some code which has already been provided to you.

For that, the standalone utilities for the Pickit 2 and Pickit 3 respectively really are much easier and more intuitive to use.

MPLAB X and its companion programming suite IPS should actually be able to do what you want them to do, just not as straight-forwardly as the 'simple' utilities will do it.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 8:23 pm   #92
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

I have used the 'Old' version of MPLAB for many years and every time I try to drag myself into the modern era by installing MPLAB X I usually potter about with it for a few minutes and sigh 'Nope, I really don't like it' and uninstall it again. I just can't get on with it at all.

That said, even 'original' MPLAB is mega-overkill for what you are attempting to do, namely programme one chip with some code which has already been provided to you.

For that, the standalone utilities for the Pickit 2 and Pickit 3 respectively really are much easier and more intuitive to use.

MPLAB X and its companion programming suite IPS should actually be able to do what you want them to do, just not as straight-forwardly as the 'simple' utilities will do it.

There DEFINITELY IS a stand alone programmer utility for the Pickit 3 - read what Terry said in his post #78 of this thread.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 8:39 pm   #93
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

On this page:

https://www.microchip.com/developmen...nloads-archive

Find and download the software highlighted in the image below. It's a long, long way down the page.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 11:41 am   #94
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

My apologies to all re the download, somehow I totally missed it. I have since downloaded both zip files for the PicKit3 and might well try the second version with my replacement target board.
UB the target board is supposed to be a convenient way to connect the PIC to the PicKit. All the basic target board cosists of is a premade pcb with a zif socket fitted and a 5 pin header to take the 6 way cable that is supplied with the PicKit interface, not connecting the end pin, which we now know is for EEPROM chips. The version that I have like most has a 40 pin zif socket mounted on it. The version that I have also has 3 sets of links that change selected PIC pins by use of 2 way shorting plugs. The part that I find a bit confusing is where the PIC chip has to be inserted into the 40 pin zif socket. And Terry's advice to why my supplied target board is not working, seems to be a combination of wrong silk screening and a total lack of correct connection info. I did try the bottom 18 pins of the zif socket and thats where the chips got mad hot, although I was using the silk screen connection details, which are a little different to Terry's connection detail. I hope that helps to describe the target board and your method of connecting directly to the PIC chip is probably a much safer option, as long as you get the right pins. This is why I decided to go for my own 18 pin zif socket on a dedicated pcb. I will most likely fit a 14 or 16 pin zif to the same pcb to suit the chip from my earlier projects. I can't remember the exact chip at present but I know it had less pins.
Dave
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 11:57 am   #95
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

No need to apologise Dave - they're making it very difficult to use their products!
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 3:37 pm   #96
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Here's a annotated version of the image of the board, confirming Terry's comments.

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(Note however that the PIC is to be inserted with pin 1 at position 11, as indicated by the wide grey bar, not 12 as might be suggested by the chip outline showing the notch.)

Here's a different board which makes the positioning clearer, if not the jumpering (?!):-

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Perhaps terminology has confused matters. The board shown is not a 'target board'. There is absolutely no need to supply external 5V to a simple programming board. The PicKit can always supply enough current (30mA) for any standalone device.

A 'target board' is one where the PIC is already in place on it's 'target' application pcb and the PicKit is connected via a programming/debugging header. In that case the board may require more current then the PicKit can supply or might run at a lower voltage. Hence the option to select.

Nor is there any need for a pullup on MCLR on a programming board, it's only relevant to debugging a program on a target board. Nor should there be any need for a capacitor on Vdd. The board is a common one which is widely used without modification. (It is not however supplied my MicroChip.)

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Old 12th Oct 2020, 4:14 pm   #97
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Thanks Trigon, just shows how much mis-information is out on the internet. The board in question, that I was supplied with, is even marketed by some as a target board. No wonder I am getting so confused. Anyway the 18 pin zif socket arrived today and I have built my version of the programming pcb. All being well everything is connected that needs to be and unused pins are just left alone. I did fit the pull up resistor and filter cap but will now remove the resistor. Not tried it yet as I am in my office/workshop and the laptop is up the house. I also fitted it with a USB connector and a 315mA Wickman style fuse for added protection for the USB supply from the laptop. I suppose that I could now reduce the fuse down to 80 or 100mA as a safer option. Basically I used what was to hand.
Dave
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 10:30 am   #98
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Late yesterday afternoon being a glutton for punishment I had another go with the MPLabs software but this time using my home made programming board. I thought that if it failed this time, then I would try the alterative software for the PicKit3. Anyway this is the screen message that was returned, which I think means that I was successful!

Connecting to MPLAB PICKIT3...
Currently loaded firmware on PICKIT3
Firmware suite version 01.56.00
Firmware type Midrange
Target voltage detected
Target device PIC16F88 found
Device Revision ID=8
Device erased...
Programming...
The following memory area(s) will be programmed:
Program memory: Start address = 0x0, end address = 0x43
Configuration memory
Programming/Verify complete

I forgot to set the bells, whistles or fanfare up to anounce the successful programming. The actual process only took a few seconds to accomplish, which surprised me a little, given how long it takes MPLabs to load itself.
Next is fit the chip and see if it actually works. I actually did 2 PIC chips and will place the second one as a spare inside the enclosure.

Thank you all for your offers of help and advice, without which I would most likely have given this project up as a lost cause.
A Happy Dave
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 11:08 am   #99
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

I have my fingers crossed, Dave. I think a strong letter to Microchip about their programme's user friendliness or otherwise is in order!
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 11:31 am   #100
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bulgaria View Post
I have my fingers crossed, Dave. I think a strong letter to Microchip about their programme's user friendliness or otherwise is in order!

Many have - nobody's listening.
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