BSR X5H wiring colours - Page 2 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Audio1950 · 28th Jun 2022, 7:12 pm

Is the sound coming from both speakers? If it is, then it would suggest that the present mono cartridge has been wired to both channels at the tag strip under the deck. To check, look at the two outer tags on strip, and see if they are connected with a wire. Also see which tags the two wires from the cartridge are connected to. One wire (doesn't matter which) should be on one of the outer tags, and the other on the tag next to it.

By the way, and others will know better than me, isn't an X5H too high output for this radiogram? I believe the original was a Ronette 105?
Barry

labratmike · 28th Jun 2022, 7:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by John10b

Can you take a look at the back to see if there is a model number etc.
John

I hope to take it apart tomorrow. Will post some pics then. Thanks for your help.

labratmike · 28th Jun 2022, 7:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by John10b

Can you take a look at the back to see if there is a model number etc.
John

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audio1950

Is the sound coming from both speakers? If it is, then it would suggest that the present mono cartridge has been wired to both channels at the tag strip under the deck. To check, look at the two outer tags on strip, and see if they are connected with a wire. Also see which tags the two wires from the cartridge are connected to. One wire (doesn't matter which) should be on one of the outer tags, and the other on the tag next to it.

By the way, and others will know better than me, isn't an X5H too high output for this radiogram? I believe the original was a Ronette 105?
Barry

Thanks a million Barry. I hope to investigate more tomorrow, so will take a look at the wiring then.

My old Grandad was a TV / radio engineer, but was ‘inventive’ rather than wealthy, so if someone else hadn’t ‘adapted’ the radiogram previously he may well have used bits in his amazing shed to patch the machine up.

Edward Huggins · 28th Jun 2022, 10:44 pm

Yes, this is the wrong cartridge for this Blaupunkt Stereogram. It needs a proper stereo cartridge. However, that BSR X5H cartridge is worth quite a bit in its own right as it's a rare and very much "in demand", mono, high-output, stereo-compatible type.

labratmike · 29th Jun 2022, 11:27 pm

Some photos. To me it just looks as if the turntable is a bit of a bodge. It only works when the green and black wires are connected. However, although the black wire is soldered to the tag strip it isn’t actually connected to anything. This isn’t clear on the photos.

The red and green wires leave the deck and plug into the back of the radiogram as shown on a photo, with one red plug and one white. I’m guessing that the fact there are only two connections this means that the record player cannot operate as a stereo device. If I do connect the red wire to the cartridge it makes a terribly loud humming noise, so I don’t really know why a wire that isn’t connected to the cartridge is needed the other end. Both speakers work. It looks like a bodge, but at least it functions.

An old sticker with a number on it (932334) fell out of the turntable as I removed it.

There is no central post to hold multiple records that I have seen on similar machines. I guess it has gone missing,

There is no belt. Just a rubber idler. It seems to have trouble overcoming friction from a large gear / sprocket which makes up part of the ‘automatic’ mechanism. As this doesn’t function properly I have removed the gear and stored it safely. Now anything I play sounds far less ‘Hawaiian‘ as the turntable speeds up and slows down.

Just waiting for an LP stylus.

A bit of a ‘Frankenstein’s monster’ by the look of it, but the humming when the turntable is turned on is bearable, the deck itself now spins at a uniform rate, and it seems to work fine.

Thanks for all your help. I would obviously welcome any comments.

Cheers

Mike

Herald1360 · 30th Jun 2022, 11:25 am

Looking at that tagstrip, I would expect the red and green wires to be the cartridge connections. Red signal and green ground. The black and white wires just terminate on the tagstrip and go nowhere.
The deck is definitely only wired for mono. One way to tell if the radiogram is stereo capable would be to look at the amplifier and see whether there are two separate outputs going to the speakers or just one common to both.

Station X · 30th Jun 2022, 1:23 pm

It's impossible to advise whether the cartridge should be a mono or stereo type without knowing whether the amplifier is mono or stereo.

In the absence of a model number, pictures of the amplifier showing the connections to the record deck and speakers would help.

The presence of a balance control would indicate that the amplifier is stereo.

labratmike · 30th Jun 2022, 2:36 pm

No balance button and only a +ve and earth terminal at the back of the radiogram (pics earlier in the thread), so except for a switch saying mono / stereo it looks very much as if the set is mono. At least it works now, which is lovely because it reminds me of my childhood sat in front of this very machine with my Airfix models displayed on top.

Thanks for the help

Station X · 30th Jun 2022, 2:39 pm

I can't see any picture showing the amplifier or the connections to it.

A mono/stereo switch on a mono amplifier sounds distinctly odd to me.

labratmike · 30th Jun 2022, 2:39 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herald1360

Looking at that tagstrip, I would expect the red and green wires to be the cartridge connections. Red signal and green ground. The black and white wires just terminate on the tagstrip and go nowhere.
The deck is definitely only wired for mono. One way to tell if the radiogram is stereo capable would be to look at the amplifier and see whether there are two separate outputs going to the speakers or just one common to both.

After a proper look the radiogram doesn't look to be stereo capable (depite a 'stereo' button

The wiring and connections simply don't exist.

I'm totally with you regarding the wire colours. If I connect the red and green I just get a horrendous buzz / hum and nothing results from touching the stylus. Although the black wire seems to end at the tagstrip when black and green are connected it plays records perfectly. I sat there with a beer for ages trying to figure it out - but gave up.

Thanks for your help

Mike

ms660 · 30th Jun 2022, 2:58 pm

Looks like or very similar to the Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe, which so far as I know has a stereo amplifier.

Lawrence.

labratmike · 30th Jun 2022, 3:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ms660

Looks like or very similar to the Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe, which so far as I know has a stereo amplifier.

Lawrence.

That's what I thought Lawrence, but it seems to have a few period 'modifications'

Seems to be working now. Just a few details to sort. Not perfect, but great to listen to all the same.

Cheers

Mike

Edward Huggins · 30th Jun 2022, 5:51 pm

I don't get this??
This is a Stereo Radiogram (each channel uses an ECL86) so why is the original autochanger fitted with a Mono (compatibe) cartridge and is only wired for mono? Weird.

paulsherwin · 30th Jun 2022, 5:56 pm

It looks as if it's been 'modified'

Goodness knows what it's like inside.

labratmike · 1st Jul 2022, 9:59 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

It looks as if it's been 'modified'

Goodness knows what it's like inside.

My Grandfather was poor financially, but 'inventive'.

paulsherwin · 1st Jul 2022, 10:06 am

It's possible it was converted to mono after one of the channels developed an expensive fault which the owner didn't want to pay to fix properly.

28th Jun 2022, 7:12 pm	#21
Audio1950 Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Whittlesey, near Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK. Posts: 3,763	Re: BSR X5H wiring colours Is the sound coming from both speakers? If it is, then it would suggest that the present mono cartridge has been wired to both channels at the tag strip under the deck. To check, look at the two outer tags on strip, and see if they are connected with a wire. Also see which tags the two wires from the cartridge are connected to. One wire (doesn't matter which) should be on one of the outer tags, and the other on the tag next to it. By the way, and others will know better than me, isn't an X5H too high output for this radiogram? I believe the original was a Ronette 105? Barry

28th Jun 2022, 10:44 pm	#24
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,335	Re: BSR X5H wiring colours Yes, this is the wrong cartridge for this Blaupunkt Stereogram. It needs a proper stereo cartridge. However, that BSR X5H cartridge is worth quite a bit in its own right as it's a rare and very much "in demand", mono, high-output, stereo-compatible type. __________________ Edward.

29th Jun 2022, 11:27 pm	#25
labratmike Triode Join Date: Jun 2022 Location: Didcot, Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 18	Re: BSR X5H wiring colours Some photos. To me it just looks as if the turntable is a bit of a bodge. It only works when the green and black wires are connected. However, although the black wire is soldered to the tag strip it isn’t actually connected to anything. This isn’t clear on the photos. The red and green wires leave the deck and plug into the back of the radiogram as shown on a photo, with one red plug and one white. I’m guessing that the fact there are only two connections this means that the record player cannot operate as a stereo device. If I do connect the red wire to the cartridge it makes a terribly loud humming noise, so I don’t really know why a wire that isn’t connected to the cartridge is needed the other end. Both speakers work. It looks like a bodge, but at least it functions. An old sticker with a number on it (932334) fell out of the turntable as I removed it. There is no central post to hold multiple records that I have seen on similar machines. I guess it has gone missing, There is no belt. Just a rubber idler. It seems to have trouble overcoming friction from a large gear / sprocket which makes up part of the ‘automatic’ mechanism. As this doesn’t function properly I have removed the gear and stored it safely. Now anything I play sounds far less ‘Hawaiian‘ as the turntable speeds up and slows down. Just waiting for an LP stylus. A bit of a ‘Frankenstein’s monster’ by the look of it, but the humming when the turntable is turned on is bearable, the deck itself now spins at a uniform rate, and it seems to work fine. Thanks for all your help. I would obviously welcome any comments. Cheers Mike Attached Thumbnails

30th Jun 2022, 11:25 am	#26
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: BSR X5H wiring colours Looking at that tagstrip, I would expect the red and green wires to be the cartridge connections. Red signal and green ground. The black and white wires just terminate on the tagstrip and go nowhere. The deck is definitely only wired for mono. One way to tell if the radiogram is stereo capable would be to look at the amplifier and see whether there are two separate outputs going to the speakers or just one common to both. __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

30th Jun 2022, 1:23 pm	#27
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,289	Re: BSR X5H wiring colours It's impossible to advise whether the cartridge should be a mono or stereo type without knowing whether the amplifier is mono or stereo. In the absence of a model number, pictures of the amplifier showing the connections to the record deck and speakers would help. The presence of a balance control would indicate that the amplifier is stereo. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

30th Jun 2022, 2:36 pm	#28
labratmike Triode Join Date: Jun 2022 Location: Didcot, Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 18	Re: BSR X5H wiring colours No balance button and only a +ve and earth terminal at the back of the radiogram (pics earlier in the thread), so except for a switch saying mono / stereo it looks very much as if the set is mono. At least it works now, which is lovely because it reminds me of my childhood sat in front of this very machine with my Airfix models displayed on top. Thanks for the help

30th Jun 2022, 2:39 pm	#29
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,289	Re: BSR X5H wiring colours I can't see any picture showing the amplifier or the connections to it. A mono/stereo switch on a mono amplifier sounds distinctly odd to me. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

30th Jun 2022, 2:58 pm	#31
ms660 Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 13,454	Re: BSR X5H wiring colours Looks like or very similar to the Blaupunkt Arkansas Deluxe, which so far as I know has a stereo amplifier. Lawrence.

30th Jun 2022, 5:51 pm	#33
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,335	Re: BSR X5H wiring colours I don't get this?? This is a Stereo Radiogram (each channel uses an ECL86) so why is the original autochanger fitted with a Mono (compatibe) cartridge and is only wired for mono? Weird. __________________ Edward.

30th Jun 2022, 5:56 pm	#34
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,958	Re: BSR X5H wiring colours It looks as if it's been 'modified' Goodness knows what it's like inside.

1st Jul 2022, 10:06 am	#36
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,958	Re: BSR X5H wiring colours It's possible it was converted to mono after one of the channels developed an expensive fault which the owner didn't want to pay to fix properly.