Paint Stripping - "New" Nitromors is hopeless.

[G6Tanuki]

I've been trying to strip the silvery hammer-finish paint from the case of my Eddystone 840A.

In times past we used oil-based "Nitromors" from a green can - it stank to high-heaven but worked really well.

Seems that it's now been 'reformulated' - presumably in response to some environmental/health&safety concern.

No longer does it stink. Equally, no longer does it rip through several layers of paint in a single dose.

So - what do people use these days to shift old paint??

[Radio Wrangler]

A 3HP compressor and a sandblasting gun!

You can fire a range of different grits and also glass beads to get different effects.

David

[lesmw0sec]

Same with some new 'environmental' brush cleaners. Tried some - I would have been better off using cold water! Thank goodness you can still get white spirit.

[Bazz4CQJ]

I'm fairly impressed with Wickes Paint and Varnish Stripper. Viscous white liquid, odourless and doesn't mess with your skin; slow, but does work on many paints. Not in the same "Thermo-Nuclear" league as methylene chloride.. but that may not be such a bad thing.

B

[Silicon]

The 'Hammerite' type of paints used a different type of solvent and seem to be more resistant to paint strippers than cellulose, alkyd, acrylic, etc. paints.

I searched for stove enamel removers and found a phenol activated dichloromethane based paint remover. I have no experience of it myself.

[David G4EBT]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

Seems that it's now been 'reformulated' - presumably in response to some environmental/health&safety concern.
No longer does it stink. Equally, no longer does it rip through several layers of paint in a single dose

You are correct in your suspicions as to why the formula has changed - EU Regulations, and it's for reasons of health and safety, though there may be an environmental dimension too.

Such a high proportion of Nitromors sales were (still are) to the general pubic as well as the trade, and had the formula not have been changed they would no longer be permitted to sell it for domestic DIY use, seriously affecting their overall sales volume so they've change the formula hoping that it will still meet the needs of domestic customers, who for the most part probably use it for stripping oil based décor paint around the home rather than the sort of things we're likely to want5 to use it for.

As to an alternative similar to what Nitromors used to be, that would be Paramose is industrial strength stripper, but you can only buy it if you are a registered company as EU regulations forbid its sale to domestic customers, though you might just find a supplier on the net who won't ask too many questions. (It turns up at auto-jumbles, but then so do oxygen and acetylene cylinders - 'ride at your own risk'). I won't give the supplier's name but here's what one reputable supplier states when trying to place an order for Paramose:

Quote:

This product is manufactured for INDUSTRY ONLY. In accordance with European Regulations 455/2009/EC this product containing Dichloromethane (Methylene Chloride) is ILLEGAL TO USE OUTSIDE THE WORKSHOP. We are NOT under any circumstances selling this product for general consumer use, we can recommend Enviromose Water Based Pro Grade Paint Stripper as an alternative DIY Product.

Tradesmen/Professionals are still able to purchase this product providing that it is used in a suitable industrial/workshop environment. Terms & Conditions: Terms & Conditions: THIS PRODUCT REQUIRES AN INDUSTRIAL USER FORM COMPLETING ON PURCHASE. I WILL SEND THIS VIA EMAIL. FILL IN YOUR CONTACT DETAILS AND CLICK SUBMIT. I CAN THEN PROCESS YOUR ORDER. If on receiving our Industrial User Form you do not meet the requirements of an Industrial User we will offer a full refund.

End quote.

Basically, as I see it, as well as health and safety at work, these regulations have come about to protect the general public from their own stupidity in using what are, after all, hazardous chemicals, especially in the wrong hands.

Main provisions of the Regulations:

The decision concerns:

1. A ban on the placing on the market of dichloromethane (DCM)-based paint strippers for use by the general public after 6 December 2011.
2. A ban on the placing on the market of DCM-based paint strippers for use by professionals after 6 December 2011.
3. A ban on the use of DCM-based paint strippers by professionals after 6 June 2012 with the option for Member States to permit continued use subject to certain conditions.
4. Additional safety measures for the use of CM-based paint strippers in industrial installations.
5. Improved labelling of DCM-based paint strippers.

Latest developments:

The Decision was adopted by the Parliament and the Council on 6 May 2009 and was published in the Official Journal of the European Union on 3 June 2009. It has now become a Commission Regulation formally amending REACH (Commission Regulation (EU) No. 276/2010).

Source:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/aboutus/europe...oromethane.htm

That suggests that Paramose for use by the trade is also on borrowed time.

Incidentally, as you mention 'silvery hammer paint' on your Eddystone, though it won't of course be Hammerite, the formula of that, and indeed all paints on sale to the general public has changed too, and yes, it's down to another EU Regulation, but not to do with safety - it's due to environmental concerns.

No category of paint or varnish of whatever type or brand in the European Community is quite what it was prior to 2007. Every manufacturer has to contend with the European Decopaint Directive 2004/42/EC which limits the total volume of Volatile Organic Compounds ('VOCs') in paints, varnishes and vehicle refinishing products in order to reduce VOC emissions and to reduce the generation of ozone in the lower atmosphere.

But I won't take this thread off topic by expanding on that here. It might be worth another thread though, as the changed formula of Hammerite has been a hot topic on the Model Engineer forum, of which I'm a member and have chipped in my two pennorth.

[vidjoman]

Just a thought - has anyone tried to remove powder coated 'paint' that is applied as a powder that looks like laser toner and applied by electrostatic attraction and then baked on? No solvent is used.

[Glowing Bits!]

I use Wilko's own brand stuff and it works very well on wireless cabinets, it was purchased a few years ago.

The way I see things is simple, if it stinks to high heaven, is proper stuff, if not, it's useless.

[Glowing Bits!]

Originally Posted by vidjoman

Just a thought - has anyone tried to remove powder coated 'paint' that is applied as a powder that looks like laser toner and applied by electrostatic attraction and then baked on? No solvent is used.

I can't say I've ever had a need to remove powder coats although acetone may work.

[Bazz4CQJ]

Tempting as it always is to have a rant at the EU, the fact is that the US, and California in particular, was at the forefront of restricting the use of VOC's and I'd guess that Canada, Australia and just about every other developed country has gone down the same route.

Stove enamelled paints and powder coatings do seem especially hard to remove with the current permitted chemicals; grit (but not sand) blasting may well be the way to go.

[Radio Wrangler]

Grit works especially well on anything which sets hard.

I have used it on Hammerite, successfully.

I recently bought some "CooVar" hammer finish paint for an outside job and it rusted through almost immediately. Fool! I thought, get the right stuff this time. So after hours of work with an angle grinder on went real hammerite. It too rusted through almost immediately. It isn't just the strippers, the paints are now no longer fit for purpose.

I once blasted the front casting and cabinet of an old Eddystone, and sprayed it with hammerite (old original Hammerite and matching thinners) and the result was good.

David

[saxmaniac]

If you do get a methyl chloride based substance the fumes are not only strong and horrible but extremely toxic so do avoid getting a whiff!

[G6Tanuki]

Thanks for all the suggestions: I'm now pondering whether giving it a going-over with a blowlamp might be the best way to shift it!

[Radio Wrangler]

No,

I made that error once and found that once flat steel panels formed domes and depressions that couldn't be got rid of. I was only removing soft domestic gloss. Removing stove enamel would take a lot more heat.

Paint baking works because an oven heats the whole thing uniformly. and it is cooled uniformly and steadily at the end.

David

[G6Tanuki]

Good point about the blowlamp causing distortion on thin steel - I know this is a problem when classic-car types 'lead load' seams.

Having failed with Nitromors I'm moving a bit up the chemical corrosiveness-hierarchy and am trying the effect of applying a paste of Sodium Hydroxide in water - something I've used in the past to shift certain paints.

[emeritus]

Petrol might work, but as well as being highly inflammable, it is volatile. Perhaps a petrol-soaked rag covered with plastic sheet to inhibit evaporation, used outdoors, might work. I mention this because in the days when I had a Hillman Imp, I used to clean the carburettor with petrol in a white enamelled steel meat tray and noticed that the petrol was turning milky. It was evidently dissolving the while enamel, so I switched to a plain tinned steel baking tray.

[SurreyNick]

If Homebase are still selling their own brand 'paint and varnish remover' you might want to give it a go. It's very effective. I use it for furniture restoration and it gets all the old paint, varnish and even shellac coatings off.

For furniture and wood cabinets I apply a thick coat as usual, allow to work (never in direct sunlight) for 30 minutes or so and then scrape off with whatever suits. Next take a suitable grade of wire wool (I would suggest 00 to 0000) and soak with more paint and varnish remover and gently scrub the item you are stripping (along the grain if wood). This will get all the remainder off. Finally clean off with white spirit or water (never water on a wooden item though).

Nick

[G6Tanuki]

Will have to investigate this, if a few days pasted with a supersaturated solution of NaOH doesn't work!

[electroanorak]

Nothing is as good as it used to be. You cannot beat oil based paints and varnish. Old glues like Cascamite (although water based), Evostick and bostik. Everything has now got to be environmentally friendly. I used some good quality water based varnish on my workbenches, and it is rubbish at £14 a tin then I found some resin based varnish at our local pound shop. The smell was nasty and it took two days to dry, but it left a very good and hard wearing surface. Just goes to show.....

Daniel.

[yesnaby]

Hi,

Cascamite is still available and I think it hasn't changed at all. I remember we used it in school woodwork!

Michael