Gramophone needles - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

pentoad · 28th Jan 2020, 3:19 pm

I have found a bag of needles inside the horn of a portable gramophone - they look unused and came with a handwritten note inside - J&M Wholesale Belford, Mike Mk429LF.
Which I Googled as Gramophone Springs.
How can tell if they are unused?

Hartley118 · 28th Jan 2020, 4:10 pm

Springs? Google can sometimes be misleading in its suggestions.

The only way I know to check out a needle (or a stylus for that matter) is with a microscope: X80 magnification is generally sufficient to see the needle profile clearly. Play with the lighting to get a clear image.

A new needle point will show a smoothly curved profile, as will an unworn sapphire or diamond stylus. A used needle will exhibit a distinct flat area breaking into the smooth curve. It's the sharp edge of that flat that turns the needle from its intended purpose as a stylus into a damaging cutting tool if it's reused.

Various low cost (<£50) microscopes are usually listed on eBay.

Martin

Dave Moll · 28th Jan 2020, 4:22 pm

There also appear to be "microscopes" for £15 or less that plug into a computer USB port. I should say, however, that I have no experience of these, so cannot say whether they are any good.

Hartley118 · 28th Jan 2020, 4:33 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Moll

There also appear to be "microscopes" for £15 or less that plug into a computer USB port. I should say, however, that I have no experience of these, so cannot say whether they are any good.

My experience with one of these cheap USB microscopes suggests that you get what you pay for!

Martin

G4XWDJim · 28th Jan 2020, 4:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pentoad

I have found a bag of needles inside the horn of a portable gramophone - they look unused and came with a handwritten note inside - J&M Wholesale Belford, Mike Mk429LF.
Which I Googled as Gramophone Springs.
How can tell if they are unused?

Hold it with the point towards the light and rotate it slowly in your fingers.

A used one will have a 'flat' that can clearly be seen with the naked eye.

Jim

sidspop · 28th Jan 2020, 5:12 pm

I have a stand alone microscope that was about 25 quid.
I get good results however using the magnifier on a mobile phone.

28th Jan 2020, 7:17 pm

Quote:

The only way I know to check out a needle (or a stylus for that matter) is with a microscope

As far as I know you don't check gramophone needles, a new one is used for each side. You can use the same one for the same side for a repeat

TonyDuell · 28th Jan 2020, 7:43 pm

I think the OP wants to check if these needles have been used (and thus should be thrown away) or if it's safe to use them to play a single side of a record.

Audio1950 · 28th Jan 2020, 9:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pentoad

J&M Wholesale Belford, Mike Mk429LF.

Mike Child - a well known Bedford dealer in gramophones, needles and spare parts. He still sells needles at very reasonable prices, so if you are in any doubt about the needles you have, don't risk ruining your records - chuck 'em away!

Techman · 29th Jan 2020, 1:30 am

Yes, as said, that's Mike Child. I don't know the chap, but I've bought needles from him before and found them to be very good quality.

As they're in a packet with that note, I would say that they're new and never used. The previous owner of the gramophone probably bought them with good intentions, but if that gramophone was faulty when you got it, then it would indicate that in the end the previous owner was not able to use them.

As has been said, it's VERY easy to tell if a needle is used and worn out, as when twiddled between your fingers under a light, you can see that there is a flat spot glistening on one side of the point - put your reading glasses on if you need them!

Each needle is a 'use once only', or twice at the most.

Soft tone needles are the best for the care of your records.

Loud tone if you want to make a good racket outside in the garden on a summer evening!

pentoad · 30th Jan 2020, 12:11 pm

Hi
Thank you to everybody who replied to my post

The needles appear under magnification to be unused, no flats on the tips.
I looked at a used needle under magnification and the wear is actually quite obvious.

28th Jan 2020, 3:19 pm	#1
pentoad Hexode Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 280	Gramophone needles I have found a bag of needles inside the horn of a portable gramophone - they look unused and came with a handwritten note inside - J&M Wholesale Belford, Mike Mk429LF. Which I Googled as Gramophone Springs. How can tell if they are unused?

28th Jan 2020, 4:10 pm	#2
Hartley118 Nonode Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Cambridge, Cambs. UK. Posts: 2,198	Re: Gramophone needles Springs? Google can sometimes be misleading in its suggestions. The only way I know to check out a needle (or a stylus for that matter) is with a microscope: X80 magnification is generally sufficient to see the needle profile clearly. Play with the lighting to get a clear image. A new needle point will show a smoothly curved profile, as will an unworn sapphire or diamond stylus. A used needle will exhibit a distinct flat area breaking into the smooth curve. It's the sharp edge of that flat that turns the needle from its intended purpose as a stylus into a damaging cutting tool if it's reused. Various low cost (<£50) microscopes are usually listed on eBay. Martin __________________ BVWS Member

28th Jan 2020, 4:22 pm	#3
Dave Moll Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK Posts: 6,130	Re: Gramophone needles There also appear to be "microscopes" for £15 or less that plug into a computer USB port. I should say, however, that I have no experience of these, so cannot say whether they are any good. __________________ Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)

28th Jan 2020, 5:12 pm	#6
sidspop Triode Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: West Bromwich, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 42	Re: Gramophone needles I have a stand alone microscope that was about 25 quid. I get good results however using the magnifier on a mobile phone.

28th Jan 2020, 7:43 pm	#8
TonyDuell Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK. Posts: 5,224	Re: Gramophone needles I think the OP wants to check if these needles have been used (and thus should be thrown away) or if it's safe to use them to play a single side of a record.

29th Jan 2020, 1:30 am	#10
Techman Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 5,000	Re: Gramophone needles Yes, as said, that's Mike Child. I don't know the chap, but I've bought needles from him before and found them to be very good quality. As they're in a packet with that note, I would say that they're new and never used. The previous owner of the gramophone probably bought them with good intentions, but if that gramophone was faulty when you got it, then it would indicate that in the end the previous owner was not able to use them. As has been said, it's VERY easy to tell if a needle is used and worn out, as when twiddled between your fingers under a light, you can see that there is a flat spot glistening on one side of the point - put your reading glasses on if you need them! Each needle is a 'use once only', or twice at the most. Soft tone needles are the best for the care of your records. Loud tone if you want to make a good racket outside in the garden on a summer evening!

30th Jan 2020, 12:11 pm	#11
pentoad Hexode Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 280	Re: Gramophone needles Hi Thank you to everybody who replied to my post The needles appear under magnification to be unused, no flats on the tips. I looked at a used needle under magnification and the wear is actually quite obvious.