Mains electrical safety - 1952 style!

[Boater Sam]

I had a room in a low cost (slum) in Sumatra, Indonesia and the guys next door wanted to rave all night with the karaoke.

Now the electric meters are on a pole out in the street (back alley). I considered blowing the fuse but thought that there may not be one!
So I yanked the outgoing live out of the meter, silence and a good nights sleep, they thought it was just a blackout!

[Craig Sawyers]

Good to hear I'm not the only electrical nutter here

[Boater Sam]

Wat? Nutter? Me? At least it was left failed safe, very.
Out here in the 'pines the mains feeds are 1 wire, overhead to looped pole meters in the rain, no meter heads. Bare tinned 7 strand 10 or 16mm for the neutral to an earth spike next to the pole, no earths at all. Sockets USA pattern on 240v AC, 2 pin, not polarised, mostly unshuttered. Normally No distribution box fuses, never seen an RCD.
The streets are not full of twitching bodies.

[Craig Sawyers]

Sounds like the wiring nightmare in India, lots of which is illegal - people with not much money (and there are a very large number of them) just tap in a wire.

Some images of this madness here

https://www.theautomaticearth.com/20...hings-to-come/

I wonder what the DC offset of that lot is!

[Boater Sam]

Its a similar story here but not so much because of theft, that's more a slum area problem, but due to exponential growth in towns. Its a problem that did not exist in 1954.
20+% of generation is geothermal, lots of solar coming on line, high voltage grid is well developed.
Its the street poles, very tall, usually leaning over, Bare High voltage on top, transformers hanging on all sides, masses of 240v cabling below, then huge bundles of data and phone cables. Then the meters nailed around the pole with the cables across the data lines, bare neutrals, often bare lives too.
The linesmen climb the poles without isolating the HV using fibreglass ladders, then walk on the cable bundles to add more circuits or to splice in repairs, live.
It is very common to walk near a pole and find a length of cable hanging down to waist height with an open end. You have no way of knowing whether it is live or data, just avoid.
In the frequent heavy rains, the flashing on the cables, insulators and meters is quite spectacular.
Population is known to exceed 100M, 60M thought to live in the Manila area, 43% of the population is thought to be under 16. Frightening statistic.

[Herald1360]

Originally Posted by Peter.N.

Sticking the wires in under the plug was standard practise in the '50s and much later for some of us I was tickled pink when the 'Keynectors' came out that you could stick you wires into without having a plug on top.

Not sure how a "Keynector" would help, here. You still have to connect that to the arbitrary customer's socket.

Now, what about the somewhat dubious "Fitall" plug?

[Boater Sam]

Not 'somewhat dubious', downright deadly. They used to come apart too easily when you removed them from a socket and using one in a skeleton type socket they would blow because the unused pins slid forward to touch the metal faceplate.
The groups used them in the 60s and had many a good belt off them.

[Boom]

The two pin round 'Clix' plugs were a favorite. The pins were split all the way down so you could wrap extra wires around the legs often with bits of the wires hanging out to give you a belt. My old man showed me how to do it. This was the first time I had felt an electric shock and it hurt!

Mind you his way of checking if HT was present was to touch the chassis with one hand and quickly swipe the HT point with the other. He claimed to be able to tell what the voltage was by the amount of tingle he got too.

Originally Posted by RojDW48

Back in the 50s/60s Landlords renting bed-sits were required not to charge for lighting, at least in Bristol that was the case.

I heard similar tales in London. The reason given to me for these death trap light adapters (got one here on display) was that lighting and mains power were charged at two different rates. Personally I think it may just have been down to the lack of wall sockets or just maybe an iron mains lead hanging down would be a lot safer than one trailing across the floor waiting to be tripped over in a kitchen with umpteen kids running around as was typical then.

[MrBungle]

It didn't get any better.

I moved into the upstairs of a freshly converted rental in Ladywell, SE London in about 2004. Got van unpacked, everyone in their rooms, popped on the television, bliss. Followed by sudden silence. Swore slightly, knowing this was going to be a problem of a large magnitude.

Had no idea where the consumer unit was so followed it logically back to the hall and the cupboard. Opened it up, all looked normal, no breakers gone. Then I looked at the feed into the unit and it looked suspiciously like normal flex. Followed this down through a hole in the floor. So went downstairs and rang on the door bell and the other new tenant below opened it. Explained it and we followed it through into their cupboard. What did I find?

My entire flat was wired onto a cheap plastic 13A plug and plugged into a socket hanging out of the back of their consumer unit. There was no back on the plug and the wires had melted making it open circuit. This was covered in PVC tape not for insulation but clearly to hide it. There was no fuse. Someone had taken two neutral pins out of two plugs and put them in one plug body so it was unfused. This was hard wired to the main bus inside the consumer unit.

We moved out the next day and into my parents' house for a few days while the letting agent sheepishly gave us all the deposit cash back. Then we fired up the council's environmental health department who wrote back to say that they had moved everyone out (including the people who replaced us) and the owner was ordered to make the property comply with regulations. This also involved replacing the entire stairs to the upstairs flat and adding a rear fire escape as well. It's been 13 years now and I'm still feeling smug about that.

Then again the guy who replaced my shower a few weeks back, I shall quote: "Jesus Fg Christ, who installed this, the Chuckle Brothers?"

[G6Tanuki]

Someone had taken two neutral pins out of two plugs and put them in one plug body so it was unfused.

That was the 'standard' way of getting more-than-13A out of a 13A socket to power electric welders!

[The non-standard way was to wire two 13A plugs together in parallel (choc-block and PVC tape at the join) and plug them into a double 13A outlet]

[Craig Sawyers]

Good heavens. It is a wonder that the place did not burn down.

But the sucking in through the teeth with "What sort of idiot did this? It is going to cost more because I have to sort this lot out first" is kind of standard trades-speak nowadays.

[MrBungle]

All work on private rentals now is notifiable thank goodness. And they actually check sometimes! That was a big step away from this nightmare.

[Station X]

Is it? What legislation or regulation covers this?

As far as I know there've been no changes since the introduction of Part P, which covers ALL types of property, not just private rentals.

Local Authorities may have their own bye laws, particularly where houses in multiple occupation are concerned.

[ms660]

Originally Posted by MrBungle

All work on private rentals now is notifiable thank goodness. And they actually check sometimes! That was a big step away from this nightmare.

I hope not.

Lawrence.

[MrBungle]

Sorry all NEW work. Forgot the NEW

New being not repairs and not minor connections like changing the cooker, hob etc. Any fixed installation being added or new spurs etc need to be notified.

Maintenance is OK. Replacing the shower is notifiable apparently.

Also 5 yearly inspections in some areas are required on all properties, otherwise only HMOs.

Under Part P 2013.

[Station X]

That's better.

https://www.niceic.com/Niceic.com/me...-Factsheet.pdf

[emeritus]

Charging power at a cheaper rate was certainly widespread at one time. The only house wiring diagram in Odhams "General Electrical Engineering" (undated, but the printer's code suggests 1943) shows separate lighting and power meters, and the passage about the "Point-five" [1/2d] cheap tariffs for heating is from "Electrical Engineering Practice" (Chapman Hall, 1944). The chapter has four pages of prices of different tariffs, which are said to be typical examples chosen at random from an "Electrical Times" publication. [ 'Electricity Tariffs and Voltages of Supply Undertakings in the United Kingdom', 6th Ed, 1932]

[Richard_FM]

One problem older PA equipment had was mains hum caused by an earth loop. Sometimes the earth was disconnected to stop this, leading to guitarists being electrocuted when their amps short circuited. making their guitars more electric than they should be.

[Station X]

Three posts moved to a new thread here:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=143137

[1100 man]

Good evening,
That link in post 44 about India's power system makes interesting (and rather sad) reading. It's rather depressing to think that so much of the world's population live in such awful conditions, when we take everything we have so much for granted.
The amount of bits of flex connected to the utility poles in the pictures beggars belief: the load voltage must be incredibly low. The loop impedance would also be so high that fuses or breakers would not be much use anyway!

Sam, I would be very interested to see some pictures of what you describe- sounds truly horrendous!

All the best
Nick