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Old 17th Dec 2010, 11:26 am   #41
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

Hi Trevor,

The company I contacted about veneer offcuts haven't replied but it was worth a try.

It would have taken a miracle to complete this restoration by Tuesday but I did trip myself up though. The set is on the bench in the garage and it's too cold to play around with it yet but I couldn't resist taking a few quick measurements of the cabinet so that I could settle down and work out veneer requirements etc.

I had come up with a plan of how to tackle this cabinet restoration and this was to remove the face of each side panel to a depth of 7mm making good by using a cabinet scraper then applying a layer of 6mm ply overlaying with a nice veneer.

I had measured the side panel thickness as 7/8" assuming these to be no more than solid pieces of birch plywood as seen in the pictures. I then visited a local timber-yard and bought two pieces of 6mm ply two feet square. It's difficult to purchase decent ply these days and this ply was from China. I could have cheated because 6mm ply was available faced with Sapele but I want to practice veneering and the harder this project is the better.

My best laid plans rapidly disappeared because after buying the ply our neighbour Terry popped across and whilst here I showed him the set removing the back cover to let him see the chassis. I then noticed the side panels are actually 1/4" ply attached to a frame; part of the visible frame to the front and top being plywood hence the side panels appeared to be solid ply?

I'm totally fed up with this freezing cold weather as I want to get stuck into this project and today it is absolutely perishing. I still have options open to me and it is possible I can still use the new ply but turning this small set back to my advantage because I can now veneer both sides of this ply before attaching it to the cabinet; to attach a single unsupported layer of 6mm ply to the cabinet and veneer the outer face only would be asking for trouble due to the tremendous grip of the hide glue as it dries out causing the panel to bow; on 7/8" thick ply this would not have been a problem but on 6mm ply the panel would distort badly.

There is still the worm hole problem to resolve; removing the "works" would be a major step forward then I could study the cabinet construction. One veneering problem I foresee is re-veneering the top panel as this is curved to the front and I've already been surfing the web for information on how to accomplish this. Ideally I'd like to try to restore this cabinet but I'm also considering making a new cabinet to eliminate the worm problem once and for all.

So far this cold weather has prevented me from making a new potentiometer from scratch; making a set of wooden radio knobs and is now messing up my cabinet making plans. One thing I can do in comfort is to play around with various veneer options and as this cabinet is so rough and is nothing more than a bit of utility style furniture I would like to improve its appearance considerably. I've no intention of going to a great deal of trouble only to slap a dark brown treacle finish on it. I intend to keep the set so feel justified in doing my best to make it look good without worrying about originality. The shape of the cabinet will be retained but it will be laid with decent veneer applied with hide glue using the hammer method and finished in French polish. This is my New Years resolution.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 17th Dec 2010, 6:38 pm   #42
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

Hi Colin,

I made a radio case for a Radiophile construction competition some years back - I too veneered it, and it was a curved top.

It is not easy! - firstly I started with 1/8" ply, and steamed ti with a wallpaper stripper, formed it roughly to shape, then with a combination of clamps, pins, super glue and resin W assembled the case.

The veneer in comparison was easy to shape - a good dose of steam, then work it around the case gently - I statred on a straight side, and clamped the flat face down well, applying steam to the point I was attempting to bend - I think it took about 3 hours of fettling, but it took shape eventually, I then glued the veneer on using Thixofix....

Sadly, my lack of knowledge has reared its ugly head now - only veneering one side has left the case a bit wonky now - it is 8 years since I built it, and it is a very sad state indeed!

Still, I think you might have more luck - you seem to have a knack for this sort of stuff!

Sean
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Old 17th Dec 2010, 6:58 pm   #43
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

Col.
I wish I had good cabinet making skills, there are lots of things in my head regarding cabinets and finishes but I have to bow my head in shame, it's not my forte.
I like the idea of improving the Ekco's general appearance, a lot of the sets of the time left a lot to be desired in cabinet design, that and the dark brown finish is quite depressing.
Funny thing is the Murphy V320 I have, the cabinet was bad, basically falling apart with the integral back falling off the splits on top and the bottom all loose, so I set about re-gluing it and instead of rubbing it all down and re-polishing it, I recovered it in fablon, a nice light coloured grain, I sprayed it with an aerosol of polyurethane varnish to seal it and it looks a treat.
So perhaps I should practice on another set, you never know I may get better!
Good luck with the cabinet and I hope you get nice and toasty and get some things done.
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Old 17th Dec 2010, 8:30 pm   #44
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Hi,

I agree with you entirely Sean when you say it isn't easy; I've already had some practice with a successful outcome as can be seen in one of my other threads but I want to spend more time practising as I find cabinetwork to be addictive.

I think if you had a go at veneering now you might find it easier due to your previous experience in knowing what to look out for; I'm taking my time to study this project in depth rather than jumping in. I'm sorry to hear you found out the hard way that veneering just one side of a thin panel eventually distorts it quite badly hence a balancing veneer is needed on the opposite side to balance out the stresses. Just to make life intolerable for myself I'll go with hide glue and veneer hammer which should be fun.

I don't know about having a knack for this work I think I'm just too thick to know when to quit and like you Sean I struggle at times but try to remain positive thinking about how I want the cabinet to turn out and this drives me on plus of course I like a challenge.

You might surprise yourself Trevor if you actually have a go and transfer the good ideas you have into something practical; all there is to lose is a bit of money for materials and your time; the hassle and frustration though is priceless; I've reached the point many times that I could cheerfully jump up and down on a cabinet but find this is the time things suddenly go right making it all worth while. why not try once again and share your endeavours with us; I don't even know yet if I can pull this restoration off but I'm jolly well going to enjoy trying and share my story on the forum.

I've spent quite a few hours trying to find cheap veneer on the web and also been watching lots of veneering videos; the best of which can be seen here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awIBy...eature=related

Thank you both for your kind wishes, Col.
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Old 17th Dec 2010, 8:34 pm   #45
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

Regarding the front curve problem I was going to suggest you might do worse than to make the veneer very pliable by an overnight soak in water, but steaming would be probably as effective. When I veneered a curve by soaking the veneer, I used PVA glue which is of course water-based.
Use of Scotch glue would require the veneer to be pretty dry, I'd guess - at least on the glued side. Clamping around the curve may require a little ingenuity, which I know you possess in spades so I won't suggest any of my methods at this point, for fear of looking foolish!
Great thread.
-Tony
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Old 17th Dec 2010, 8:47 pm   #46
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I believe that in the "good old days", loosely filled sand bags (a bit like bean bags from the school gym) were used as a way of holding the damp veneer in place on curves until the glue had set. I've never seen it done so it could be hear-say. Perhaps Colin has heard of the method?

Last edited by brianc; 17th Dec 2010 at 8:48 pm. Reason: bad grammar!!
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Old 17th Dec 2010, 9:28 pm   #47
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Hi,

Thanks Tony I think steam would indeed soften the veneer; I've noticed a product called "veneer softener" but this was in the states. It would be interesting to try the method shown in the above video as this guy uses a hot iron and plenty of warm water producing instant steam; the veneer looks as pliable as cloth. With your experience and expertise Tony you would never look foolish: I think looking foolish is best left to me after all I've stuck my neck out by taking on this wreck so publicly.

Thanks Brian I have heard of the sand bag method of curve forming veneer in fact it might even be shown in my Charles H Haywood's book on veneering. I've even heard of sand bags being used as a support whilst panel beating in case anyone wishes to attempt bashing out an aluminium A22 cabinet?

The curve on this cabinet is a simple plain curve and I'm pretty sure the veneer will follow the curve easily enough with the grain parallel with the curve but just to be awkward I'd like to lay the veneer at right angles to the curve which in fact the original veneer has been done but I'm thinking of possibly cross banding as I have a good stock of short ends of Sapele veneer.

I have quite a bit of veneer under the bungalow but its just too cold to be playing around in the garage. One option to overcome the problem of applying veneer to the curve would be if I decide to make a new cabinet as I could very easily introduce a solid wood rail of the correct profile and use this in place of the curved veneer; jointing the top panel into it; it's enjoyable just kicking ideas around at the moment but once I can inspect the bare cabinet closely I'll find a simple solution. Thanks everyone for your ideas and suggestions which goes to prove there are usually many ways of doing the job.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 18th Dec 2010, 10:41 am   #48
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

Col, you could try model boat suppliers as a source of veneer. I have used them in the past. Alyn
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Old 18th Dec 2010, 12:10 pm   #49
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

A couple of years ago I needed some veneer and found a local company in Yellow Pages. I visited them one afternoon, there was nobody in the front office, so I went through the open "works" door and looked for someone who looked like a foreman. Asked him if they supplied trade or public - "trade only mate". "Do you have any offcuts ?" was my next question. "Yes, help yourself" replied my new friend, pointing to a large pile of pieces, some up to 14" x 8". So I now have a large bundle sitting in the workshop to keep me happy.

The only downside is that all the pieces are the same wood (cherry) which is a bit dark for some purposes, the grain and colour are both different from the usual radio and tv cabinet. However, for a major rebuild this is not a problem!

So my advice would be to go and ask in person, I'm sure they'd be amenable.

Happy veneering!

Ian Blackbourn
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Old 18th Dec 2010, 1:40 pm   #50
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Hi,

Thanks for this Alyn; many years ago I visited Hull docks and bought two sheets of 1/8" marine ply for a project I was working on and it was top quality.

Ian; we have a lot in common as I too prefer the back door when trying to locate offcuts as the front door usually ends up with "sorry can't help" from a lady receptionist discussing the latest finger nail varnish colour on the phone (sorry girls). It always pays to keep a look out for skips in company yards whilst driving around as lots of useful stuff gets thrown away. When I worked at Brook Motors I used to be fed up of motor winding insulation blowing into the department from the skip (Mylar) every time it was windy and now with hindsight I should have obtained a good stock.

I've been spending quite a bit of time surfing the web looking for local companies who possibly use wood veneer in their products but find many of these companies sites when clicked on to open just ends up with a long list of other companies; many only giving a phone number and/or email address. Opening a few of these soon becomes frustrating and takes up a great amount of time.

I'm making progress though because I've done simple sketches indicating the veneer sizes I need and located a number of websites supplying many mouth watering veneers. The burrs and burls in particular are most desirable so I hope Santa is following this thread.

The weather is still terrible but I'm becoming very restless and am now considering trying to squeeze into my garage to make a couple of veneer hammers.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 18th Dec 2010, 10:07 pm   #51
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Default Re: Restorer's dream.

Hi Col, have you tried Boddys (Boddies?) at Borobridge, they have a hugh collection of woodworking materials and I believe they also do mail order.

Ed
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Old 18th Dec 2010, 11:00 pm   #52
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Hi Ed,

Thanks for this; yes I know Boddy's well and the last time I visited a few years ago I wanted a bit of walnut veneer to cover the top of my Murphy A30C cabinet measuring approximately 18" x 9". Boddy's only had a full sheet of walnut veneer in stock and this was on offer being reduced from £72 to £36.

I explained my needs and the lady in the store took a pair of scissors and kindly cut a piece for me charging £12. This was very expensive veneer but at least I was able to complete the cabinet restoration.

I'm playing around with a few ideas of how to veneer this Ekco and must need stronger medication because I'm dreaming of adding beautiful burr walnut inlaid panels to both sides and top surrounded by Sapele cross banding and very dark stringing; I've found a website that can supply 6 sheets in book matched pairs of burr walnut for a total £37.50 delivered but I'm worried about placing the order due to all the postage problems at the moment.

It's much too cold yet with daytime temperatures below freezing to be playing around in the garage; I'm becoming impatient though and if the weather doesn't improve I'm in for some cold work as I've no intention of being dictated to by the weather for long.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 19th Dec 2010, 3:02 pm   #53
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Quote:
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I've found a website that can supply 6 sheets in book matched pairs of burr walnut for a total £37.50 delivered but I'm worried about placing the order due to all the postage problems at the moment.
If you wait until after 1st Jan. to order, Col, it will cost you £42.86 with the VAT increase!
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Old 19th Dec 2010, 3:38 pm   #54
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If you wait until after 1st Jan. to order, Col, it will cost you £42.86 with the VAT increase!
Don't worry too much Col. I think Brian meant to say £38.29! Must be the old retailler in me coming out!

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Old 19th Dec 2010, 4:14 pm   #55
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Hi Brian,

Thanks for the timely reminder; these walnut burr veneers are sold in pairs so I wonder if I can get a discount for three pairs?

I've just spent a few hours on winter sports!! I've been in the garage and to heck with the weather; it will slow me down but not stop me. I've now made two veneer hammers but not completed them as they require the brass strips fitting which I need to buy and a few coats of shellac to seal them. The large hammer is for general veneer laying but I also decided to make a much smaller one for use in laying stringing or cross banding. Both veneer hammers cost virtually nothing to make and I'll buy a strip of brass from Blackgates Engineering.

It was wonderful to hear my machines sing again but the job took twice as long as it should as I needed to be extra careful running machinery whilst feeling cold; the parts were roughed out on the Startrite circular saw (combination machine) the head curves were cut on the Startrite bandsaw and made smooth using my home made belt sander; this generated enough dust to catalyse my running nose making for pleasant working.

Just tinkering around on the lathe turning the handles was enjoyable and I got carried away by adding decorative black lines burnt on whilst the lathe was in motion using a length of wire. Wire or anything else should never ever be wrapped around fingers whilst using a lathe as this is the easiest and quickest way to lose fingers and make a mess of the job. Powdered snow started to fall so I put the car away as a wet car does no good for the machinery cast iron beds.

I have an electric oil filled radiator in the garage and after a while it felt cosy as the temperature must have risen above freezing whilst I worked.

My workshop is in one room of a two room extension to the rear of our bungalow and as an indication of how cold it gets in there I've added a picture of the windows completely iced up; yes on the inside.

Rather than keep moaning about the weather I feel much happier now that I've pottered around for a few hours.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 19th Dec 2010, 6:47 pm   #56
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Quote:
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If you wait until after 1st Jan. to order, Col, it will cost you £42.86 with the VAT increase!
Don't worry too much Col. I think Brian meant to say £38.29! Must be the old retailler in me coming out!

Regards,
You're absolutely right Dave! I upped the price in the ratio 20/17.5 Doohhhh!!
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Old 22nd Dec 2010, 8:39 pm   #57
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Hi,

I think I've just resolved my veneer problem by buying two large sheets of Sapele Pommele at £24 delivered. this is an excellent price as the sheets are 1920mm x 260mm giving me plenty to play with. Hopefully it will arrive in good condition. It's still too cold to do any cabinet work but at least I can gather the materials.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 22nd Dec 2010, 9:19 pm   #58
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Hi Col.
I am going to watch this very carefully. Do you think you will do a step by step tutorial on this thread, it would be great if you could!
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Old 23rd Dec 2010, 2:50 pm   #59
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Hi Trevor,

Thanks for asking. Yes I hope to cover this full restoration on the forum as I for one want to see the finished set. I'll tackle the cabinet first but before doing so I want to help a forum member out by turning four wooden radio knobs which shouldn't take long to accomplish then I'm clear to work on this Ekco TV. It's pointless waiting for the weather to improve so once Christmas is over I'll be playing with my toys in the garage come snow or shine.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 24th Dec 2010, 6:09 pm   #60
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Hi,

I'm in for a lot of fun with this restoration. Falling asleep feeling warm in front of the computer didn't appeal to me this afternoon when I have a nice cold garage to play around in. Out with the car and two hours later the "works" are safely on the bench leaving only the speaker unit attached to the cabinet.

This is my first TV strip and I found it straight forward apart from a bit of head scratching trying to find how the chassis front was attached to the cabinet? I had removed the two rear screws and the knob outer rings together with the side moulding; I found I was being too gently as a good tug pulled the chassis free.

I had attempted to remove the tube after first removing all the components from its end but found it would not clear the chassis and was rather heavier than I expected so returned it to its position securing with a couple of washers and nuts. I clearly marked all the components giving numbers on masking tape attaching the tape to the component and making plenty of notes in a sketch pad as each component was dis-connected. Many pictures were also taken.

By the time the works were on the bench the garage was beginning to warm up with the radiator switched on but I couldn't stand too much excitement in one day.

Next job will be to inspect the cabinet in decent light because looking at it with chassis and tube out I'm not over keen on restoring it; the number of worm holes are scaring me and they are seen on all the panels including the plywood base. I pulled at the outer face of the plywood which is badly de-laminating to find no glue strength remaining allowing strips to be pulled away freely. Had this been a rare or valuable cabinet I would have considered taking it apart and making necessary repairs as it was rebuilt but this cabinet is made of very cheap grade materials; even all the inner aluminium shielding to the cabinet is badly corroded.

Common sense is yelling at me to make a brand new cabinet but even this won't be easy as I've never attempted making such a cabinet before; what a wonderful project this is turning out to be.

The tube and chassis are vulnerable to damage on the bench so both will be cleaned and stored in our spare bedroom out of harms way; at least I have expert help with the electronics not only from forum members but my friend Mike Phelan has volunteered his expertise for when I start work on the chassis for which I'll gratefully accept.

I don't yet know my way around a TV chassis and assume the section containing the U25 valve to be the LOPTx? This looks incredibly rough.

Christmas and the cold weather is slowing me down but I've made a good start today without breaking anything.

Kind regards, Col.
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