HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

ramon56 · 23rd Nov 2018, 6:43 pm

Hello all.

I just got myself a really nice HMV record player - late 60's I think. The sound is a bit thin, not a patch on my old Dynatron Cordova, so I was wondering if I could connect it to an external speaker or amp. There are two sockets on the front panel (see pic) marked 'Tape' and 'Radio'.

A 3.5mm jack will kind of fit, but not too snugly and I couldn't get any sound when connected to a speaker. Does anyone have any idea what type of jack will fit these sockets?

Many thanks.

sparkymike · 23rd Nov 2018, 7:07 pm

Phono ?
Mike.

Nuvistor · 23rd Nov 2018, 7:28 pm

Don’t think they are phono sockets, more like 3.5mm jacks but you won’t get any sound connecting them to a speaker.
The radio will more than likely be an input to play a radio through the record player, the tape is likely a low level output to a tape recorder.

What is the model number? If someone has a manual, confirmation of the sockets use and type should be in that.

m0cemdave · 23rd Nov 2018, 9:01 pm

As above, they look like line level, rather than speaker, outputs.

They may be the old UK/USA version of the 3.5mm socket, which is slightly bigger at around 3.56 (I wonder if it was 9/64" with a bit of clearance).
Modern 3.5mm types will fit, but are always a bit loose.

The problem occurs when going the other way, the old style plug often doesn't fit in a new socket!

ramon56 · 23rd Nov 2018, 9:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuvistor

Don’t think they are phono sockets, more like 3.5mm jacks but you won’t get any sound connecting them to a speaker.
The radio will more than likely be an input to play a radio through the record player, the tape is likely a low level output to a tape recorder.

What is the model number? If someone has a manual, confirmation of the sockets use and type should be in that.

Thanks for the replies. The model number is 2038, I've just found it here https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/hismas...ayer_2038.html
Phono plugs are too big to fit.
When you say low level output, does mean that it won't have enough volume for a speaker?

Station X · 23rd Nov 2018, 9:59 pm

I have looked at the circuit diagram and can confirm that the sockets are for an input from a radio and a low level output to a tape recorder. Neither will drive a speaker.

Grubhead · 24th Nov 2018, 12:32 am

They are the same type that was used on those old mushroom type earphone that fitted into one ear.

crackle · 24th Nov 2018, 8:12 am

Similar 3.5mm jack sockets were used on Hacker and ITT-KB radios.

Mike

Restoration73 · 24th Nov 2018, 8:26 am

Phono plugs won't work as they use the body for the second connection.
Thorn used this jack socket with the plugs made by Rendar, solder types with a screw on ally or plastic cover, and old ones can be sourced.

You can connect the tape socket to a line input, or if the level is too low try a microphone input if one is available.

simpsons · 24th Nov 2018, 10:25 am

Given the Dynatron sounded so much better, are we to assume it no longer works and the HMV is its replacement?

If so, perhaps getting the old machine working is the better bet?

Without the model details of the HMV being given, but assuming that the BR-14 Dynatron was your machine, it isn't possible to make a judgement on equivalence but the in the Dynatons favour, it is said that a 10"X8" loudspeaker is used, that is important. Thorn did make some good record players at a price the general public could afford and this meant just that. However, "sounding thin" could mean poor bass response or low volume either of which could be a cartridge issue. A little more precision might help here.

As for the sockets, they say "tape" and "radio" so, Iimagine, that is what they are for.

Station X · 24th Nov 2018, 10:28 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by simpsons

Without the model details of the HMV being given,

As the OP stated in post #5 it's a model 2038.

simpsons · 24th Nov 2018, 11:44 am

Thanks Graham, I should have paid closer attention to the threads. I got there in the end by another means.

This being the case, the 2038 has been the subject of earlier posts as has the Dynatron. I note that the HMV quoted audio output is 1.5 watts from a AC128/176 "transistor radio" pair before distortion adds to the musical reproduction quality of the unit whilst the Dynatron boasts 7 watts from a couple of AD161/62 "radiogram" devices. This, together with the loudspeaker puts the Dynatron, as expected, into a different league and, possibly, why the HMV sounds a tadd thin on the ground.

ramon56 · 24th Nov 2018, 6:20 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Station X

I have looked at the circuit diagram and can confirm that the sockets are for an input from a radio and a low level output to a tape recorder. Neither will drive a speaker.

Thanks Graham, and for all replies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by simpsons

This being the case, the 2038 has been the subject of earlier posts as has the Dynatron. I note that the HMV quoted audio output is 1.5 watts from a AC128/176 "transistor radio" pair before distortion adds to the musical reproduction quality of the unit whilst the Dynatron boasts 7 watts from a couple of AD161/62 "radiogram" devices. This, together with the loudspeaker puts the Dynatron, as expected, into a different league and, possibly, why the HMV sounds a tadd thin on the ground.

Cheers for that - yes those extra specs make a big difference. I sold the Dynatron as it developed a fault and the repairs were beyond my skill level. The HMV looks fantastic but I think I'll go back to a turntable/amp/speakers set up.

RojDW48 · 25th Nov 2018, 12:36 am

You could undo the hardboard panel inside the player, disconnect the internal speaker and connect to an external speaker that way to see if it makes a big difference - nothing too hefty obviously!

PaulR · 25th Nov 2018, 3:47 pm

This looks very similar to a Marconiphone record player of my wife's. This has very good sound with good bass so maybe there yours is not performing as it should. Has it got the original cartridge for example? If so the suspension may have gone hard over the years. I doubt that the manufacturers expected it to last so long.

simpsons · 25th Nov 2018, 9:09 pm

Just food for thought. Should you still be unable to get to terms with the HMV, a high end Hitachi/Sharp Music Centre is a well made and reasonably sized piece of kit and not that expenive.

It will give you very good sound reproduction from Vinyl at an affordable price; the turntable will have a magnetic cartridge and S shaped tone arm which together will save your music collection and provide a listening experience no record player I have ever heard gets anywhere near.

In addition, linked together with you flat screen TV will give you a home cinema to boot.

The down size is where you might put it.

terrykc · 27th Nov 2018, 7:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulR

This looks very similar to a Marconiphone record player of my wife's.

Hardly surprising, as Thorn owned both Trademarks!

From memory, I think there were 5 in all - Ferguson, HMV, Marconi, Ultra and Philco. Ultra also owned the Pilot trademark but I don't think Thorn ever used it.

Electronically, as you would expect, all versions of any range were identical but physical presentation varied.

I remember one range of TV's (we never had anything to do with Thorn, so I can't tell you which) that had four knobs. The external presentation of these knobs varied from a vertical row to a horizontal row or a two by two formation and could appear on the front or side and I think one set might have had them on the top!

Edward Huggins · 27th Nov 2018, 9:26 pm

Yes, THORN did use the Philco badge with different styling in a very limited way on at least one portable record player.

ramon56 · 5th Dec 2018, 3:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by simpsons

Just food for thought. Should you still be unable to get to terms with the HMV, a high end Hitachi/Sharp Music Centre is a well made and reasonably sized piece of kit and not that expenive.

It will give you very good sound reproduction from Vinyl at an affordable price; the turntable will have a magnetic cartridge and S shaped tone arm which together will save your music collection and provide a listening experience no record player I have ever heard gets anywhere near.

In addition, linked together with you flat screen TV will give you a home cinema to boot.

The down size is where you might put it.

I was thinking about a music centre actually so I'll keep an eye out for a Hitachi or Sharp. Thanks for the tip. Incidentally, how would you connect to a TV?

Edward Huggins · 5th Dec 2018, 7:12 pm

Depends on how old the TV is, but it's usually via a lead to the 2 (Red and White) "audio out" RCA sockets on the TV to the "aux in" sockets on the Music Centre. You will be amazed at the difference this can make.

23rd Nov 2018, 6:43 pm	#1
ramon56 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 8	HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? Hello all. I just got myself a really nice HMV record player - late 60's I think. The sound is a bit thin, not a patch on my old Dynatron Cordova, so I was wondering if I could connect it to an external speaker or amp. There are two sockets on the front panel (see pic) marked 'Tape' and 'Radio'. A 3.5mm jack will kind of fit, but not too snugly and I couldn't get any sound when connected to a speaker. Does anyone have any idea what type of jack will fit these sockets? Many thanks. Attached Thumbnails

23rd Nov 2018, 7:07 pm	#2
sparkymike Octode Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Colchester, Essex, UK. Posts: 1,076	Re: HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? Phono ? Mike.

23rd Nov 2018, 7:28 pm	#3
Nuvistor Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 9,433	Re: HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? Don’t think they are phono sockets, more like 3.5mm jacks but you won’t get any sound connecting them to a speaker. The radio will more than likely be an input to play a radio through the record player, the tape is likely a low level output to a tape recorder. What is the model number? If someone has a manual, confirmation of the sockets use and type should be in that. __________________ Frank

23rd Nov 2018, 9:01 pm	#4
m0cemdave Octode Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, UK. Posts: 1,219	Re: HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? As above, they look like line level, rather than speaker, outputs. They may be the old UK/USA version of the 3.5mm socket, which is slightly bigger at around 3.56 (I wonder if it was 9/64" with a bit of clearance). Modern 3.5mm types will fit, but are always a bit loose. The problem occurs when going the other way, the old style plug often doesn't fit in a new socket!

23rd Nov 2018, 9:59 pm	#6
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? I have looked at the circuit diagram and can confirm that the sockets are for an input from a radio and a low level output to a tape recorder. Neither will drive a speaker. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

24th Nov 2018, 12:32 am	#7
Grubhead Heptode Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 539	Re: HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? They are the same type that was used on those old mushroom type earphone that fitted into one ear.

24th Nov 2018, 8:12 am	#8
crackle Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Basildon, Essex, UK. Posts: 4,100	Re: HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? Similar 3.5mm jack sockets were used on Hacker and ITT-KB radios. Mike

24th Nov 2018, 8:26 am	#9
Restoration73 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK. Posts: 2,801	Re: HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? Phono plugs won't work as they use the body for the second connection. Thorn used this jack socket with the plugs made by Rendar, solder types with a screw on ally or plastic cover, and old ones can be sourced. You can connect the tape socket to a line input, or if the level is too low try a microphone input if one is available.

24th Nov 2018, 10:25 am	#10
simpsons Octode Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Harrow, London, UK. Posts: 1,493	Re: HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? Given the Dynatron sounded so much better, are we to assume it no longer works and the HMV is its replacement? If so, perhaps getting the old machine working is the better bet? Without the model details of the HMV being given, but assuming that the BR-14 Dynatron was your machine, it isn't possible to make a judgement on equivalence but the in the Dynatons favour, it is said that a 10"X8" loudspeaker is used, that is important. Thorn did make some good record players at a price the general public could afford and this meant just that. However, "sounding thin" could mean poor bass response or low volume either of which could be a cartridge issue. A little more precision might help here. As for the sockets, they say "tape" and "radio" so, Iimagine, that is what they are for.

24th Nov 2018, 11:44 am	#12
simpsons Octode Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Harrow, London, UK. Posts: 1,493	Re: HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? Thanks Graham, I should have paid closer attention to the threads. I got there in the end by another means. This being the case, the 2038 has been the subject of earlier posts as has the Dynatron. I note that the HMV quoted audio output is 1.5 watts from a AC128/176 "transistor radio" pair before distortion adds to the musical reproduction quality of the unit whilst the Dynatron boasts 7 watts from a couple of AD161/62 "radiogram" devices. This, together with the loudspeaker puts the Dynatron, as expected, into a different league and, possibly, why the HMV sounds a tadd thin on the ground.

25th Nov 2018, 12:36 am	#14
RojDW48 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 2,074	Re: HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? You could undo the hardboard panel inside the player, disconnect the internal speaker and connect to an external speaker that way to see if it makes a big difference - nothing too hefty obviously! __________________ '....don't go mistaking Paradise for that home across the road!' (Bob Dylan)

25th Nov 2018, 3:47 pm	#15
PaulR Dekatron Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southport Lancashire, UK. Posts: 3,233	Re: HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? This looks very similar to a Marconiphone record player of my wife's. This has very good sound with good bass so maybe there yours is not performing as it should. Has it got the original cartridge for example? If so the suspension may have gone hard over the years. I doubt that the manufacturers expected it to last so long. __________________ Paul

25th Nov 2018, 9:09 pm	#16
simpsons Octode Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Harrow, London, UK. Posts: 1,493	Re: HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? Just food for thought. Should you still be unable to get to terms with the HMV, a high end Hitachi/Sharp Music Centre is a well made and reasonably sized piece of kit and not that expenive. It will give you very good sound reproduction from Vinyl at an affordable price; the turntable will have a magnetic cartridge and S shaped tone arm which together will save your music collection and provide a listening experience no record player I have ever heard gets anywhere near. In addition, linked together with you flat screen TV will give you a home cinema to boot. The down size is where you might put it.

27th Nov 2018, 9:26 pm	#18
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? Yes, THORN did use the Philco badge with different styling in a very limited way on at least one portable record player. __________________ Edward.

5th Dec 2018, 7:12 pm	#20
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: HMV Record Player. What plugs fit these sockets? Depends on how old the TV is, but it's usually via a lead to the 2 (Red and White) "audio out" RCA sockets on the TV to the "aux in" sockets on the Music Centre. You will be amazed at the difference this can make. __________________ Edward.