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Old 26th Jul 2022, 3:03 pm   #1
Davecru
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Default GPO 232 won't dial.

Guys
after a little guidance. I picked up a 232 without a bell box for a very good little price.

I have piggy backed it off my 300 series junction box and using the 300 to dial out everything connects and I can hear dial tone speak hear etc but cannot dial at all, can here the pulses but they are very quiet. It hangs up and picks up ok.

Checked the wiring and it seems to be wired up right as a MK2 and I am guessing as mostly works it points to something to do with the dial ??

Also I was looking at putting a little bell inside the case as I have seen done before a chang cheng bell I think and it should connect across terms 1 & 2 I think? Are there any other bell type solutions wanted to keep it pretty much as is, looks great dinky.

Also what resistance should I be expecting across the microphone ?

Couple of pictures of the wiring(not the best) and one of the overall phone just for fun.
Thanks for any help you can offer, I have another dial around and may try switching that over when i get a second.

Thanks
Dave
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Old 26th Jul 2022, 3:33 pm   #2
Dave Moll
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

How are the red, green and white leads of the line cord connected at the other end? If you wish to connect a bell, it needs to go between 3 and 5 of the master socket. Assuming that red and white are connected between 2 and 5, the green wire can be connected to 3, but disconnected from T2 in the telephone, and the bell goes between white and green.

As to dialling out, are you sure that your telephone provider supports loop-disconnect (pulse) dialling?
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Old 26th Jul 2022, 3:55 pm   #3
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

I assumed that the supplier supports loop disconnect since the OP says his 300 works OK.

Unless of course his 300 has a MF Gizmo fitted

Cheers

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Old 26th Jul 2022, 5:40 pm   #4
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davecru View Post
I have piggy backed it off my 300 series junction box and using the 300 to dial out everything connects and I can hear dial tone speak hear etc but cannot dial at all, can here the pulses but they are very quiet. It hangs up and picks up ok.
Perhaps I could ask the OP to clarify whether this is saying that a 300-series telephone dials out successfully - in which case I would agree with Mike that this means the problem must be within the 232.

edit: comparing wiring with diagram N332, it appears that the slate and blue wires of the dial are transposed.

Additionally, looking at diagram N4300 for interconnection with a bellset, I was incorrect about disconnecting the green wire from T2. It should be connected. I was a little hasty in my original reply, and it's a while since I last connected up a 232.
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Old 26th Jul 2022, 5:42 pm   #5
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

@Cobaltblue @Dave Moll thanks for getting back so quickly.
Yes indeed my supplier supports pulse my "normal" phone is a 8746 is it the bt issued 746 prefitted with a BT plug on the end and works a treat.

I connected via the junction box thats attached to my 300 series there were three wires white red and blue matched the white and red and connected the green to the blue. The 300 series was/is connected to those three as well and works a treat albeit a little quiet in terms of speaking.
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Old 26th Jul 2022, 5:58 pm   #6
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

Dave Cobalt I posted but doesn't seem to have appeared. My day to day phone is an 8746 and that works perfectly, the 300 series works fine, a little quiet speaking and hearing. The 232 works for hearing and speaking but on dial the dial tone comes back almost immediately after each turn of the dial.
I am guessing that something on the back of the dial is not opening or clos8ng correctly ?
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Old 26th Jul 2022, 6:32 pm   #7
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

You are still on pre mod your posts only appear whe a mod has approved.

Cheers

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Old 26th Jul 2022, 6:47 pm   #8
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

A couple of quick points from looking an N332.

Swapping slate and blue on any UK telephone dial shouldn't make any difference. These are the connections to the separate off-normal contact that shorts the earpiece during dialng. But N332 note 3 does mention that 'in earlier issues' these wires are swapped.

More importantly, and I half-remembered this which is why I looked at N332, early versions of the telephone swap all connections to terminals 6 and 8 on the terminal block inside. Make sure what you have is a consistent set of wiring,
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Old 26th Jul 2022, 8:19 pm   #9
Davecru
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

Thanks guys for the ideas.
I definitely have a terminal block with 8 connections.
I checked it against the diagram in the base and it looks good.
I will have another dig in the morning and see what we have.

Would anyone have a source for a little bell to pop inside ?

Thanks
Dave
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Old 26th Jul 2022, 9:19 pm   #10
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDuell View Post
More importantly, and I half-remembered this which is why I looked at N332, early versions of the telephone swap all connections to terminals 6 and 8 on the terminal block inside. Make sure what you have is a consistent set of wiring,
I think this is the problem. It appears that both the green lead of the handset (receiver) and the slate lead from the dial (D2) are connected to T8. Try moving the latter to T6.

By the way, I can't see the red lead from the handset (common), which should be connected to T5.
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Old 27th Jul 2022, 12:42 pm   #11
Davecru
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

Guys

my little saga continues tinkering is fun when it makes sense

The currents state of affairs
Handset

white to 4
green to 6
red to 5

Mainline

red to 1
green to 2
white to 3

Dial

orange to 3
pink to 4
slate to 6
brown to 7
blue to 7

Symptoms are now
Lift handset hear dial tone
Dial a number can hear the pulses then immediately back to dial tone.
I can use the reciever to leave a message on a voicemail as before so nothing really has changed swapping that wire over.

One thing worth noting is where terminal six is that part of the bakelite has parted company with the rest but the nut bolt connector is there and working tried to take a picture so you can see what I mean.

My guess is something in the dial? a switch not opening when the dial is turned ?
Took a vid of the dial spinning but cant load it up here.

Thanks for all your help.
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Old 27th Jul 2022, 5:10 pm   #12
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

Thanks for the enlarged image. I now see why I couldn't find the red handset lead - it is hiding beneath the green one!

One thought has occurred to me, which is something that caught me out a while ago. For some reason, the 232 uses red for the "A" leg and white for the "B" leg. Try swapping these over and see whether that cures your problem.
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Old 28th Jul 2022, 10:15 am   #13
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Smile Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

Eureka!

We have success I found a BT cable I had hanging around at the back of a drawer and connected it up as shown in the photo and Bingo! we have a working phone.

Now I can get on with restoring it tidying up the cabling and using it

A few questions if you can indulge me ?

1) I need some form of ringer internally to the phone, from above this needs to connect across terminals but I have no idea which or what voltage ?
2) Any suggestions for some form of internal bell? I have seen some lttle Chang Chengs(?) but cant for the life of me find one to buy.
3) The hang up T-bar looks like a differnt material to the rest of the phone any special treatment needed for hand polishing this bit ?

Thanks for all your help guys I am a happy bunny just need to finiosh off my little project now.

Dave
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Old 28th Jul 2022, 1:29 pm   #14
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

This is the mechanical bell Dave is referring to, and it does appear that it will fit in a TELE232 perhaps without the case.

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I don't know where you might get one, but many years ago I bought something similar for a customer for use as an external bell, and the lady in reception complained that it made her factory sound like "Arkwright's shop"!

So did you replace the original cloth covered line cord with the modern one?
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Old 28th Jul 2022, 1:58 pm   #15
Davecru
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

That's the one or something similar have searched high and low on t'internet and cannot find one. Wanted to avoid a piezo buzzer type thing just need a little thing for some audible.

I have kept the cloth cable and will adapt it to a plug when I roll through polishing and the like.

Works nicely and such a nice simple design if I can crack the audible side of things I will be sorted.

Dave
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Old 28th Jul 2022, 2:24 pm   #16
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

I've a feeling Telephone Lines used to stock them - as just a bell without a case, in fact I think that's where I bought the one I have, but I checked their catalogue following Dave's initial post I couldn't find one. It may be worth contacting him, as I've always found him very helpful - details are on the "contact us" page of the web site. And yes, it does fit inside a 232.

Otherwise, all I can suggest is that they do occasionally turn up on eBay, so patience is the order of the day. The alternative is to do the job the original way and mount a bellset 26 (or a bell 59A, given that you are using the capacitor in the master socket) underneath.

Regarding your line cord, I notice that you have transposed the white and red leads when compared with the original cord. As I suggested above, would transposing the leads on the original cord have the same effect?
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Old 28th Jul 2022, 6:39 pm   #17
Davecru
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

Dave thanks I will give the man a shout, no rush really it can hold fire for a while while I dig one up.

On the line cord yes I am sure you are right and if I had transposed the originals it would have worked the same, I just used the newer bt cable as the spades are much easier to keep connecting disconnecting especially with gammy mits.

I have ordered a "bell" extender from China for the princely sum of three whole English pounds when it arrives in 2024 I will see if it has the bell.

Might have a look at a 59a never seen one or at least I don't remember seeing one. Quite enjoying this it's all nicely accessible I am learning quick.
Thanks for your help it's been invaluable.



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Old 28th Jul 2022, 8:09 pm   #18
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

His name, by the way, is Malcolm Percival - which I couldn't call to mind at the time of my previous post. Fortunately, he posted on another forum (Telephone Heritage Group) shortly afterwards.

Bell 59A is basically the same as a Bellset 26, but without a capacitor. I'm intrigued what a "bell extender" is.
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Old 29th Jul 2022, 8:10 am   #19
Davecru
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

Dave
its a cheap plug in extension "ringer" but the ad hinted it was a bell rather than a buzzer so I thought for that exorbitant price I would give it a spin and if it's a bell gut it for the bell and circuit.

Just an idea

Dave
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Old 29th Jul 2022, 8:44 am   #20
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Default Re: GPO 232 won't dial.

Ah right, an extension bell. I was confused by the term "extender" - a bit of Chinese "English" vocabulary new to me!
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