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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 11:12 am   #1
G6ONEDave
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Default ILP transformers

Does anyone know of a list of ILP transformer part numbers that shows the transformer specifications. I've tried online searching to no avail.

I have an ILP toroidal transformer part number '8A695P', it appears to be some sort of 3 phase design possibly 415v in to 110v out but I would like to confirm this, along with knowing it's VA rating.

Thanks, Dave
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 1:33 pm   #2
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Default Re: ILP transformers

Looking at the attached sheet you tfmr could be 500VA, other sources I found confirm that, see - https://www.industrysearch.com.au/to...range/p/139932 . A good way to find out is to weigh it and compare to existing tfmr's, I use this site - https://airlinktransformers.com/cate...standard-range

Andy.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 1:54 pm   #3
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Default Re: ILP transformers

The 8 suggests 500 VA, I suspect the other numbers suggest a special not covered by their normal numbering system.

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/t...umbers.378077/
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 3:10 pm   #4
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Default Re: ILP transformers

Thank you both Andy and Barry. That list does suggest that the transformer in question is 500VA and given it's physical size is plausible. Not many numbers with a letter as the second digit though so could well be a special. I think it might have come out of a 3 phase industrial robotic arm controller system but could be wrong there. I did obtain a 750VA/1000VA 230v to 110v toroidal from the unit some years back when it was scrapped. You know right place right time etc.

I'll just have do a translation at some point to convert the text into English as my German or is it Dutch is not that good.

Thanks again,

Dave
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 3:54 pm   #5
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Default Re: ILP transformers

Dave

Andy's datasheet is in Dutch. It only covers single phase transformers - I've never seen a 3-phase toroidal transformer, only the big three limbed, three cored type.
Anyway, the datasheet states that for transformers below 750VA the primary connection wires are both pink (roze), the 1st secondary winding wires are red (rood) and yellow (geel) and the 2nd secondary blue (blauw) and grey (grijs). For transformers of 750VA and above there are 2 x 110V primaries both with wire colours brown (bruin) and pink (roze).

John

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Old 4th Aug 2022, 8:31 am   #6
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Default Re: ILP transformers

Thanks John,
I thought the data was either German or Dutch, I will do a transcript to English at some point, although now that you have given me the colour sequence, it will now be something for the future.

The colours on this transformer are; 2 x yellow, 2 x red, 2 x blue, 2 x grey and 2 x brown. The lead outs have both the yellow joined together, both red joined together, both blue joined together and both grey joined together. The two browns are seperate from each other.

The dc resistance as measured with a Fluke77 (IV) digital meter are; yellow/red 1.1 ohms, blue/grey 1.1 ohms and 1.3 ohms across the two browns. This was done on my computer desk without shorting any windings.

The colours made me think of the old 3 phase colours, hence my initial comments. Now that I've ohms measured the windings, it would seem to be a single phase tx after all which is great as I might be able to actually use it. Just need to confirm input voltage for the primary. It's time for me to wire up to my high current mains variac to see what happens.

Given the joined wires it suggests to me that there are actually 4 secondary windings that have been paralled to create 2 secondary windings. I was actually looking for a 35-0-35 toroid for an amp project when I came across this mystery one.

Diameter is approx 133mm x 55mm high and it's quite heavy for it's size.

Dave
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 1:13 pm   #7
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Default Re: ILP transformers

I've now put 126v across the 2 brown wires and am getting 38.5v on each of the two secondaries. I don't want to go to 240v on the primary just yet but would rather wait until I can hopefully confirm the correct input primary voltage.

It might be twin 55v secondaries for a 240v input to obtain a centre tapped 110vac output. Don't know for certain at this stage, just considering the possible industrial useage where it probably came from. Mind if it is a 55-0-55 at 500va for a 240v input, that would make a heavy duty power supply for an audio amplifier project. Also prices for such toroids on the well known auction site are pushing into triple figures!

Dave
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 10:11 pm   #8
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Default Re: ILP transformers

I knew I had this somewhere. I used to use many hundreds of these transformers. Exceptionally good quality.

Joe
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ILP-1.pdf (1.31 MB, 25 views)
File Type: pdf ILP-2.pdf (1.15 MB, 21 views)
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 10:12 pm   #9
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Default Re: ILP transformers

The most important bit, the Data.

j.b.
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File Type: pdf ILP-3.pdf (1.48 MB, 21 views)
File Type: pdf ILP-4.pdf (1.25 MB, 20 views)
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 6:14 am   #10
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Default Re: ILP transformers

When testing unknown tfmr's use a lamp limiter, if the lamp glows you've connected something wrong. This applies to a no load situation.

Andy.
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 8:20 am   #11
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Default Re: ILP transformers

From Joe's data it looks like the transformer has a single 110V primary and from the ratio Dave determined above it has two secondaries of around 33V each.

John
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 9:24 am   #12
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Default Re: ILP transformers

Thank you J.B. and John for confirming the tx ratio. Glad I decided not to put 240v into the primary yesterday and that I read Joe's pdfs today before doing anything else with the transformer. Shame it's a 120v primary though.

At least we now all can tell primary voltages by the colour of the wires, as well as sorting the phasing when joining two windings together. I know how to determine the phasing but it is a lot better to have it confirmed in the manufacturers data.

Thank you all and as my initial enquiry has now been answered, I expect that this thread can be closed. Unless anyone has something further to add.

Thanks again.

Dave
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 12:52 pm   #13
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Default Re: ILP transformers

Well worth keeping the core to rewind it, 500VA is a handy size for a 20-30w stereo valve amp. An afternoon of steady work and bobs your uncle. I buy cheap toroids and rewind them, just the job for a budget valve amp project or DIY valve tester or whatever.

Andy.
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 1:23 pm   #14
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Default Re: ILP transformers

Thanks for the idea Andy. The centre of this tx has been epoxied internally with the centre hole through it. Ideally I would add a second 110v winding to put in series with the existing one but removing the epoxy could be awkward and cause damage to the existing windings.

The tx VA rating should be high enough to use in a 150w stereo Mosfet amp and the secondary voltages are in the right ball park area to give just short of +/- 47vdc. It's just frustrating that it is actually a 110v primary. I'm in two minds now, do I try to add another 110v winding or sell as is and use the funds to go against a tx with a 230/240v primary.

This morning I remembered where this tx came from, it's from a Unimat Puma cnc controller for a robotic arm. So another option might be to try and sell it as an industrial spare part.

Dave
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 2:02 pm   #15
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Default Re: ILP transformers

110v primary means the only market for such a tfmr is the States I guess, which means having to post it which is uneconomical. I've removed the potted core out of several toroids by drilling small holes and then chipping it out with an old screwdriver or chisel. If you carefull it can be done with damaging any windings.

The problem you might come up against is if the primary has been wound for 60hz, better to pull off all the old windings and start fresh maybe or maybe not as the windings will be connected in series. As the core is 500VA that means there's fewer windings to pull off/wind back on.

Andy.
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 10:02 pm   #16
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Default Re: ILP transformers

500 VA means pretty heavy wire and not many turns. Having played with lots of toroidal transformers I would guess it will be very close to 2.5 turns per volt. When changing from 120 to 240 volts primary, use half the guage and twice the turns. Half the guage in CSA ( Cross sectional area ).
As Andy has said, its actually pretty easy. When I make up specials I use a stick shaped like those goobers that fishermen use to repair nets. Its like a dogbone, with the bone "ears " holding the wire that will be wound onto the core. I use paint stirrers or wooden school rulers to make them up.

If you make the dogbone the same length as an average turn on the core, its very easy to manage all that wire without a "spill ".

Thats just a clue if you decide to rewind.

Joe
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Old 6th Aug 2022, 10:10 am   #17
G6ONEDave
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Default Re: ILP transformers

I've given some thought to a rewind or even adding to the existing primary winding. The tx is most likely going to be a 60hz version, so I'm taking it that to get 50hz at 110v the primary would need another 20% of copper wiring and likewise the same for the 2 secondaries. If going for 240v complete rewind the first problem is that I don't have that amount of enamelled copper wire.

Whilst I appreciate that a rewind is possible, and thanks Joe for the pointer on how to approach the job, I don't think it would be viable in cost and time required for me to attempt it. I'll offer it in the for sale section. Re posting to USA the lowest price I found was about 40, so probably not viable as Andy has stated.

Dave
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Old 6th Aug 2022, 9:20 pm   #18
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Default Re: ILP transformers

I have already read your for sale add, BUT, an ILP will work very happily at 60 hZ. In fact the flux will be lower than at 50 Hz. There is also a brief section explaining the flux values used and they are very conservative.
As I stated, I have used hundreds of them and have yet to have or yet heard of a failure.

Joe
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