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Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc. |
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31st Jul 2022, 8:11 pm | #1 |
Octode
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Near Stowmarket, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 1,962
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Nordmende Souverän
Hi all,
It has been a very long time since I have touched a television, in truth I have never fully gained the confidence to tackle one. I have a few now sitting in the to do pile so I am hoping to change that sometime in the near future. I was particularly pleased with this find, which appeared reasonably locally on Facebook marketplace for my favourite price, free! It's a Nordmende Souverän, it appears to have been a rather high-end set and it has that wonderful shiny lacquered finish so often seen on German equipment of the era (and fortunately it is largely in good shape). It's a beautiful piece and seems to be largely unmessed with. I am guessing it is late 1950s/early 1960s, although there is an octal valve socket on the chassis with nothing in it. Judging from the stray top cap there should be something there. This sadly brought on the reality of what it may be like to bring this set to life. I can't imagine service data will be easy to track down. What standard is it likely to be? What mains voltage? Sadly, the writing on the back panel is worn and I have yet to locate the mains transformer. Were they ever sold here? Fortunately, I suspect it will be several years before I pluck up the courage to need to be able to answer these questions but I thought I'd share some pictures of it now in case anybody else has encountered such a beast! I suppose it does at least make the prospect of sorting those Ekcos with the Perspex LOPTs slightly less scary! |
31st Jul 2022, 8:39 pm | #2 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK.
Posts: 2,801
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
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31st Jul 2022, 8:43 pm | #3 |
Pentode
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Aabenraa, South Jutland, Denmark.
Posts: 219
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
Hi,
Judging from the picture valves rounded corners, it would probably be around 1960. Could be a bit later since it has the UHF tuner built in. I think that most companies went from 90 degrees to 110 degr. crt's in 1959/60, so if you can give us the type of the pict. valve, it would be easier to point out. It is normally on a sticker at the rear of the valve. I think in 1961/62 the 21" valve was discontinued, and instead the 23" with sharp corners took over. As for the missing valve on the chassis, it is most likely a PL36. That one is the horizontal output valve. The booster diode, a PY88, is normally located right next to it. You will not find a mains transformer, as these sets are AC/DC operated. You should bear in mind that one of the mains leads is connected to chassis, which can be lethal when working on it without a safety transformer (don't know if this is the correct term). It is most likely made to be operated on 220V, but can have been modified to take the 240V in UK of course. I don't know about the difference between the UK 405 lines and 625 lines over here, but maybe the set was not sold originally to operate in your country. Otherwise it is a beautiful set, and when restored I am sure it will produce an amazing picture. Kind regards, Jan |
31st Jul 2022, 9:45 pm | #4 |
Octode
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Near Stowmarket, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 1,962
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
Thank you both. That brochure is wonderful. Look how happy I could be watching it, I just need an appropriate pipe to go with it.
Thank you Jan, I will see if I can find out that detail. I don't want to dig too deeply just yet and start taking anything apart as by the time I get round to having the courage to have a go at it, I will have probably lost all the screws! So, are you saying it would likely originally have been a 625 line set? If so, and I appreciate this is probably a stupid question, is this the same as the UK 625 line standard? I wonder how it ended up here. The plug and mains lead all looks original. |
31st Jul 2022, 10:08 pm | #5 |
Hexode
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Hohenroda, Eastern Hesse, Germany
Posts: 453
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
Hello,
this is a nice find indeed! It is worth taking care of as there are not many more around nowadays. The crt would be a Valvo AW 83-88 as I assume, and the missing PL 36 (I have got at least half a dozen in stock) often indicates a runaway booster cap or such a misery. If you can figure out the chassis type or model no., please let us know. Maybe I have got a circuit diagram at hand. Regards, Joe |
31st Jul 2022, 10:27 pm | #6 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,185
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
The writing on the back would clear up for which country/system the set was made. It's unlikely to have 405 lines, but it might have 6.0MHz sound, either from the factory or built in later.
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31st Jul 2022, 10:35 pm | #7 | |
Pentode
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Paris, France.
Posts: 235
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
Quote:
This is mots probably a set for the B/G standard (most continental west european countries, except France).. It differs from the UK 625 lines standard I only by the sound intercarrier frequency (5,5 MHz instead of 6 MHz). However the UHF channel numbering on the dial is strange, it starts at 13 or 14 and not 21 (the first UHF channel follows immediately the las VHF channel, like in the US). So I assume it's a very early set equipped with a UHF tuner, before the final numbering was decided by the EBU. |
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1st Aug 2022, 10:37 am | #8 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,884
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
If you need a PL36 I have a couple of NOS Mullards.
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2nd Aug 2022, 11:55 am | #9 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,185
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
Very early, maybe, but could it be an export set? Other markets outside Europe might have used different channel numbers, and it would explain how it got into the UK. On the other hand, the writing on the dial and the knobs is in German.
As I said, the model designation on the back might provide a clue. |
2nd Aug 2022, 10:54 pm | #10 |
Pentode
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Paris, France.
Posts: 235
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
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3rd Aug 2022, 6:25 am | #11 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany.
Posts: 367
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
Congratulations!
It is a great set with a fantastic sound, as far you like to watch "Top of the Pops" on old teles. I can send you a complete manual, have to scan it, which takes a little while. The octal socket, where it is placed - picture? - could be for the remote control. Your set is from 1959/60 with a AW 53-88. I own the 1960/61 version with the AW 59-90 CRT. As a Nordmende television receiver, the Souverän was the top of the line, more expensive were consoles with radio and recordplayer, only. It is possible, that your set has a tuning eye (PM 84). I don`t know that exactly so early in the morning! Nordmende exported worldwide. Your set could be owned by a british soldier. See: Normende Sterling for the USA: https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/NordSter.htm I hope your CRT is made by Valvo (Philips) made in Aachen, the Telefunken CRT will be bad! Regards, German Dalek
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3rd Aug 2022, 6:44 am | #12 | ||
Hexode
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany.
Posts: 367
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
Quote:
Regards, German Dalek
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3rd Aug 2022, 8:50 pm | #13 |
Octode
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Near Stowmarket, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 1,962
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
Hi all,
Thank you so much for your comments. It's good to know that there seems to be a fair amount of knowledge out there regarding this set! I see most comments have come from international members so I can only assume there aren't many examples of this set in the UK. Sadly, the writing on the back panel is worn. I have managed to translate some of it (I say I did, Google did!) and the readable text is all the usual warnings about not removing the rear cover unless unplugged. I did however find a few chassis labels which I have photographed and attached. I also spotted a label next to that octal socket and you are spot on German Dalek, it is for the remote control! How extravagant! Is it likely to cause any harm running it on UK mains voltage? Is there any easy way of telling if it has somehow been converted to run on the UK TV standard? Seems strange to think somebody would import such a huge television only for it to be of no use in this country. Unless of course they didn't realise until it was too late! |
3rd Aug 2022, 11:29 pm | #14 |
Octode
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harrow, London, UK.
Posts: 1,483
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
The schematic for the Normende L10 is available on the radiomuseum site.
Unusually, sound and vision IF's are separate which could help make working on system I easier. The frequency of the traps and IF are both shown on the circuit. I guess though, using a local UHF modulator means that the problem of adjacent channel interference doesn't occur. Perhaps you can leave the vision IF alone until the set is proven, then re align to get the best performance from a very well engineered television. What a find Good luck |
4th Aug 2022, 12:12 pm | #15 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany.
Posts: 367
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
Hello,
It was common, that soldiers, mostly americans and british bought stuff in Germany during their army time. They had a good balance for their cash. So they brought stuff from their home to Germany and left it here, when it was broken and/or bought new stuff. Here in the Düsseldorf/Mönchengladbach area we had a big british community. For that reason we had a strong BFBS radio station and BFBS/SSVC Television. Television was aired on UHF by the british standard. A friend made some changes inside my VCR to allow me, to watch and record british television. My favorite was "Top of the Pops"!!!!!! followed by the original BBC and ITN-News. All was aired "live"! I think, something like "Blue Peter" and greating shows were produced in Germany. At the army facilities you could buy these little 1-transistor divices for only 30,- DM. The 4 connections were: 12 V+, ground, video-out, IF-audio-in. The original coupling cap between the video-out and the IF-audio-in has to be replaced by the two wires. I still have one of these divices mounted in my 1956 SABA Schauinsland T-604! I loved to watch "Top of the Pops" on my old b/w teles.... I still have VHS-recordings from that time, three of my favortes for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4jI...&start_radio=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKU0...GFXNoE&index=2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ThK6POaz8I When we had junk day "Sperrmüll", they placed mostly german TV sets in the street. Once I saw an old british Philips colour TV with push buttons, marked with BBC 1, BBC 2, ITN. Sorry, but the back was missing, I should had to save it. Regards, German Dalek
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5th Aug 2022, 6:04 am | #16 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany.
Posts: 367
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
Good morning!
The end of the noon pause yesterday has interrupted my longer post.... What I have to add is, that I think, that this set is aligned to 6 MHz picture/sound spacing. These Nordmende sets of the 50s came always with a schematic and an alignment instruction to the customer. There was an envelope in the cabinet or it was attached anyway at the back. Please check the speaker compartment. If it is not just a last years antique find in Germany, the first/pre-owner had an interest to use this tele in the UK. No big job for an average british TV repairman. Regards, German Dalek
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12th Aug 2022, 8:37 am | #17 | |
Pentode
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Aabenraa, South Jutland, Denmark.
Posts: 219
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
Quote:
Do you know if this is usual with Telefunken CRT's and if, why it is so? A few years ago I restored a danish Eltra tv with the Telefunken AW 53-88 and that was also very weak. I had earlier sets with MW 43-69 from Telefunken too, and they too were weak. I know this could all be coincidental, but I had several more Telefunken CRT's being weak/needing replacement, compared to Philips. On the other hand, I never had to replace a TFK EF80 that is used in the IF section. Their other valves seem to last even very long. Maybe CRT's were not their field? Regards, Jan |
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15th Aug 2022, 12:02 pm | #18 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany.
Posts: 367
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
Hi Jan,
Yes, Telefunken nether build good CRTs! All 50s, 60s, 70s, incl. the colour models had a short life! Since my youth in the 70s I collected old TV sets from the garbage. Curbside, like americans say, 50s-Telefunken (AEG too) sets were hard to find because the people get rid of them earlier. Teles made by Philips (always!), Nordmende, Loewe Opta, Metz, NORA, Graetz lived longer. Metz never used Telefunken tubes, to other companies sometimes. In fall 1979 I picked up a Graetz Kornett F-27 / 1956 after school from the street. The Telefunken CRT was mice-dead! With the Müter it was possible to give a little light on the screen. It has to be clear, that the set was not used that way to its last day in the living room. Because of the dirt and some rusty screws it was out of work since about 10 years. I thing they went gassy, it is NOT a result of an excessive use. Btw., I never!!!! had this trouble with a Philips-CRT of the same time!
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15th Aug 2022, 9:12 pm | #19 |
Octode
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Near Stowmarket, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 1,962
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
Oh dear, that's worrying news. I have just checked and it has a Telefunken tube...
Sadly, no sign of a circuit diagram in the little pocket on the back. No sign of it inside either. What are the caps generally like in sets like this? Certainly, in the German radios I have encountered, they have tended to be OK. I guess the next step is to power it up and see if we have any life unless there's anything in particular I should check first? |
16th Aug 2022, 6:18 am | #20 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany.
Posts: 367
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Re: Nordmende Souverän
Good morning!
The caps are evil! You will find a lot of dark brown WIMA-caps, often they are looking melted and some white and pink ERO-caps, all are junk. Hunts-quality! I should interchange them all before you fire the set up for the first time! Good luck! P.S. I should help you with a clean scanned schematic if needed. Regards, German Dalek
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And now something completly different: MARC BOLAN, he was/is the real king of Pop Music! Last edited by German Dalek; 16th Aug 2022 at 6:35 am. |