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Old 28th Aug 2013, 9:22 am   #1
LRS0001
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Default Candlestick No. 150 help

Being a bit of a purest regards collecting and also knowing that manufactures of these phones often swapped parts around with each other, sold others under their own names, where bought out by other companies and the inevitable replacing of parts through the life of the phone makes confirming how genuine and original these phones are a real challenge.

One thing that is very confusing is related to the original finish colour of the receiver unit. I have read conflicting comments on the web regards the original colour finishes of the Receiver unit on the No 150:

1. The top coat finish and colour would have originally been in a ‘black’ Ebonite and if you were to remove this finish you would first go down to a brown colour and then further down to the final brass finish. The original black colour has now faded away to brown on most receiver units today.

2. The top coat finish and colour would have originally been in a ‘brown’ Ebonite and if you were to remove this finish you would first go down to a black colour and then further down to the final brass finish

My questions:

Did Ebonite come in both a black and brown colour finish and maybe different manufactures provided their phones with different receiver unit colour finishes or is one of the statements above definitely incorrect?

Did the receiver unit cap come in two types of material e.g. Ebonite finished or Bakelite/plastic? I have one that is brown in colour and another one in black that looks like plastic with GEC written on the inside.

Finally, are there any identifiable indicators to help ascertain which manufacturer made a given No 150 phone? E.g. Terminal Block pressings – hole locations and sizes, Hook-switch and Cradles, Dials, Main Bodies etc…
• Peel Conner
• GEC
• Ericsson
• STC…

Thanks in advance for any help on this as the old candlesticks are not as easy to identify as the later 200, 300… models.
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 11:50 am   #2
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Default Re: Candlestick No. 150 help

Ebonite is made from rubber. Normally black, hence the name, but oxidises to brown with age. I've never heard of it being used as a top coat on brass before.
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 12:20 pm   #3
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Default Re: Candlestick No. 150 help

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC/HL View Post
I've never heard of it being used as a top coat on brass before.
I bought a NOS Bell receiver, No:1, as used on candlestick (or 121 wall instrument) at the Leeds radio rally back in '82 (for 50p!). I suspect it was of more modern manufacture - 1940s perhaps - as it was in a sealed polythene bag with GPO label inside, perhaps used for refurbishment?

Anyway... It was covered in a thin layer of dark brown insulating material which I thought to be ebonite rather than lacquer or varnish. The ear-cap (Earpiece No:13) was solid ebonite, brown, but probably black originally, with a notch in it to alert the subscriber, via the howler, if inadvertently placed standing up 'off-hook'.

I sold it on ebay yonks ago - I may still have the photograph - and since acquired a part-stripped Peel-Connor candlestick with the same Bell No:1 receiver, but some fool has, at some point, taken ALL the brown ebonite off and left a polished brass case which looks vulgar.
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 1:42 pm   #4
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Default Re: Candlestick No. 150 help

Thanks to everyone’s replies.

So it appears that when the Receivers were made they were a Black colour based on the Ebonite finish but over time the Ebonite turned Brown due to discolouring in sunlight and age. So, based on this, it is probably highly unlikely to still find a No. 150 with this original Ebonite black colour receiver after 85 years.

What is still odd though is that you still find some Receiver 'caps' still in Black. Were some of these 'caps' made from a latter material that would not fade from black to brown i.e. not Ebonite finished? Are the 'caps' that discolour from black to brown older than the ones that stay black?

Attached are 3 pics I found on the web that help to illustrate this:

Pic R1 – Discoloured Receiver now Brown, but with a Black Cap
Pic R2 - Discoloured Receiver & Cap now both Brown
Pic R3 – This is what happens if you restore too far – brass!

Thanks again!
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 6:45 pm   #5
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Default Re: Candlestick No. 150 help

Here's a pic of my receiver prior to selling it. Below, in italics, is the spiel I wrote with it. I sold it in November '05 for about forty quid. Wonder who bought it? I got it from either AH Supplies or the A.C.Supply Company.

I wish I'd bought a hundred!

This receiver is of the type fitted to the BPO type 150 candlestick telephone and BPO types 11 and 121 wall-mounted telephone (amongst others) during the 1920's. It consists of a horseshoe magnet attached to soft-iron pole-pieces, passing through two 30 Ohm series-wound bobbins. A 'Stalloy No: 12' diaphragm is mounted beneath the bakelite earpiece. The receiver stands 137mm tall (as shown in the picture) and the diameter of the earpiece is 63mm

The workings of the receiver sit in a brass outer casing which is coated in ebonite. The bakelite earpiece has a recess provided, so the 'howler' may be heard if the receiver is left off the hook, face downwards.

I purchased this receiver as 'new-old stock' (NOS) in 1981 and it has never been used. Tested and in good working order. An ideal opportunity to restore that old telephone you have lying about, or simply to invest in a little piece of Great Britain's telecommunications heritage.
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 7:40 pm   #6
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Default Re: Candlestick No. 150 help

Quote:
Originally Posted by russell_w_b View Post
A 'Stalloy No: 12' diaphragm is mounted beneath the bakelite earpiece. The workings of the receiver sit in a brass outer casing which is coated in Ebonite. The Bakelite earpiece has a recess provided
Wow, how good it would be to find a Receiver in that original condition!

Interesting that the text stated that the earpiece was Bakelite and not the same as the Ebonite coated receiver?

Referring back to my last attached pics, it seems that there were two variations of earpiece:

• Ebonite coated
• Black Bakelite

Interesting…
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 8:08 pm   #7
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Default Re: Candlestick No. 150 help

It was indeed bakelite - I quoted from (bad) memory on post #3, being at work, not in front of my original notes! It had started to go brown, though.

They'd obviously been salted away in some GPO or Air Ministry storeroom and been snapped up by the company that sold me it at some auction or other. At that time (1981), for comparison, old bakelite 300 series telephones could still be had for a quid or so.

Hindsight is an exact science...
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 11:13 pm   #8
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Default Re: Candlestick No. 150 help

Quote:
Originally Posted by LRS0001 View Post
Referring back to my last attached pics, it seems that there were two variations of earpiece
Some of my 'Receivers, Bell, 1A' on my candlesticks still have their original black Ebonite coating rather than the faded to brown as is more common. You may get lucky one day.

The correct earpiece cap for the 'Receiver Bell 1A' is an 'Earpiece No 2' which were made in solid Ebonite originally and later black Bakelite - the Earpiece No 2 fitted the Receivers Bell 1A, Tele No 28 (marks 234, 235 and 237) Tele 78, 86 and 94.
The 'Earpiece No 13' whilst it will screw onto the Receiver Bell 1A is not the correct one as it is according to the GPO Vocabulary of Engineering Stores for Teles 36, 80 and 140 and certain Tele 28's. There was an Earpiece No 23 (with 'howler groove) on an AT&E manufactured dial fitted version of the GPO's early Tele 80 that I bought this week on eBay.

Keep looking on eBay as all seems to come to those that wait. Ten years ago I acquired a 3+20 wall mounted CBS No 3 exchange - in its previous life it was 'Glenmoriston' exchange in the village post office at Invermoriston from 1925 until 1955. It was missing a few 'attachments' one of which was according to the diagrams a GPO 'Milliameter No 13' - a switchable 50mA/500mA meter. On investigation I discovered that the only thing it was ever fitted to was this model of switchboard :-( It was used to monitor line leakage when run off primary cells. It was also missing its hand generator - a 'Generator No 8'. The latter came up at a 'swapmeet'. And would you believe some years later a brand new sealed in the box 'Milliameter No 13' came up on eBay for a fiver - I was the only bidder. So don't give up hope! I'm now looking for a 2uF capacitor made by British Insulated Helsby Cables dated 1913 for my 1913 ATM Bellset No 8 to go with my 1913 Tele 72 candlestick. I'm sure one will come along one day!
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Old 31st Aug 2013, 12:03 am   #9
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Default Re: Candlestick No. 150 help

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC/HL View Post
I've never heard of it being used as a top coat on brass before.
Looks like I have now!
Also I often wondered why they had a groove in the end cap, I know that too.
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Old 1st Sep 2013, 6:14 pm   #10
LRS0001
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Default Re: Candlestick No. 150 help

Pellseinydd, many thanks for this very comprehensive and informative post - very useful info!

Staying on the subject of Receivers Bell 1A ‘earpieces’, do you know if the very early No. 150s had an earpiece with a single circular hole were the sound came out rather than the typical pepper pot style with multiple little holes?

Trying to identify what the very early No. 150s came with compared to the latter versions.

Thanks again
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Old 2nd Sep 2013, 11:00 pm   #11
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Default Re: Candlestick No. 150 help

Again the answer is 'yes' - the majority of my candlestick telephones (Tele No 2, 72, 82, 150 & 156's) have 'Earpieces No 2' with a single large hole in the centre. I haven't checked my wallphones ( No 3, 11, 55, 101 and 121's) as they are on the wall inside the exchange at the bottom of the garden. It is interesting to note that all the ones with the single large hole are ebonite ones rather than Bakelite.
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Old 7th Sep 2013, 10:13 am   #12
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Default Re: Candlestick No. 150 help

I am certain I have read somewhere that candlestick phone receivers were coated with a thin coat of bakelite when new but his has often been rubbed away or polished off over the years.
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Old 7th Sep 2013, 2:56 pm   #13
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Default Re: Candlestick No. 150 help

As I recall I read in Poole's Practical Telephony or similar tome that the coating on the coating on the PO Bell receiver was a wrapping of canvas or cotton tape impregnated with Vulcanite and heat cured. (As I understand it Ebonite was an artificial 'wood' also created with a canvas filler before 'modern' Bakelite.) Bakelite for telephones started with the AE Monophone in 1925 followed by the Siemens Bros' Neophone 1929/30. I think that the bakelite receiver caps with multiple holes like the No 164 handset receiver cap came in around 1930. The No 22 transmitter with a No 13 carbon mic was produced to replace the old solidback tx on the Tele 150 at the same time.

Andrew
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Old 12th Sep 2013, 9:32 pm   #14
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Default Re: Candlestick No. 150 help

GPO 'Receivers Bell No1A' cases were covered with thin layer of 'Ebonite' which is a hardened form of rubber. Ebonite was a trade name for it used by Goodyear - the well known rubber company.

To quote Poole's Practical telephone Handbook' sixth edition (the first to describe the 'BPO Standard Receiver) " The outside of the case body is coated with 'Pellolit' or ebonite to a thickness of at least 20 mils."

I have seen non-GPO Bell receiver cases that have just been painted from original rather than coated.
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Old 22nd Nov 2013, 10:04 am   #15
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Default Re: Candlestick No. 150 help

I've used this on my Australian 38AT candlestick;

http://www.libertyonthehudson.com/pontypool.html

See here for 38AT pic and info;

http://www.britishtelephones.com/aus/38.htm

If applied as per the instructions, the finish is indistinguishable from the original and its wearing qualities are just as good or better as the old finish.

Pricey and you need a contact in the States to get it at this time but well worth the trouble.

Ron.
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