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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 9:09 pm   #1
NickG0HIK
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Default Any info on how to use Relay gauges BGT No.1

At a rally last weekend I had to pick up these gauges as they were not a lot of money.
I'll probably never use them, although I do have some WWII equipment with P.O. relays and Uniselectors.
It would be nice if there are any docs around that would instruct me on their use.
The usual google search just gets so many hits for something called "Britian's got Talent" what ever that is.

Many thanks

Nick
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 9:29 pm   #2
Euros1951
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Default Re: Any info on how to use Relay gauges BGT No.1

From Sam Hallas site. These instruments are for adjustment of relay spring contacts.

http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repositor...e_19_relay.pdf
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 9:56 pm   #3
NickG0HIK
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Default Re: Any info on how to use Relay gauges BGT No.1

Thanks, I had seen his web site some time ago, but had forgotten about it.
Some interesting information there.
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 11:38 pm   #4
Oldcodger
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Default Re: Any info on how to use Relay gauges BGT No.1

From memory of lots of years ago ( possibly something like 50) , these gauges were used to check the armature load on relays. To set the springset tension ,you'd need to acquire a full set of relay springset adjusting tools. This is just a dim memory from my days on GPO TTA courses. It was something the "clunk click" lot ( as we called them , I was a TRS blokie, who had no need of this knowledge) had to do to keep relay sets in decent condition.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 11:23 am   #5
woodchips
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Default Re: Any info on how to use Relay gauges BGT No.1

Back in the 70's I used to use those in anger.

I worked for Plessey. The GPO would sample some Strowger equipment and say that the such and such a relay was out of spec, so I had to go through all the relay sets checking and adjusting.

Still got my gauges, and all the spring set adjusting tools, goal posts, twinners etc. Sure there must be something about using them in the old telephony books? Nothing much in my Herbert 1938 copy. Search for telephony on ABE etc.

The three gauges should have a couple of measuring arms that plug into the end of the gauge. The pair are used as is.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 2:02 pm   #6
Gi4CZW Cliff
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Default Re: Any info on how to use Relay gauges BGT No.1

BGT 1 would be box's guage's tension number 1. and you needed two of them. The strap under the lid was to house the extra long detents. Each guage had both a horizontal and a vertical detent held to the side on a fitting. The hole on the tip of the detent for calibrating with a set of weights. happy days. Cliff.
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Old 24th Feb 2019, 9:30 pm   #7
NickG0HIK
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Default Re: Any info on how to use Relay gauges BGT No.1

Thanks for the info guys.

Yes the three longer gauges all have two arms that fit in the ends.
There is also an arm under the strap in the lid.

I'm still reading up on P.O. relays, there is such a lot to the subject.

Hopefully I'll get to talk to an ex GPO Engineer some time and he could actually show my how they used them.

I realise that you also need the adjustment tools.

It was interesting to hear a story how a bent and distorted relay was given to the students and they had to be able to make it fully fit for service before they were passed out on the course.
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Old 25th Feb 2019, 2:32 am   #8
Radio1950
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Default Re: Any info on how to use Relay gauges BGT No.1

Memory lane time.
Alas, I also cannot find any web sourced Post Office type instructions for the Tension Gauges, although we had an Australian PMG Telephony Equipment book for instruction in the 1960s.

Essentially though, the items were a type of spring tension gauge, with thin detachable end sections, which were inserted into the gauge end mechanism, and as desrcibed in earlier posts.
The required "tension" to be tested, in grams, was adjusted with the knurled knob.
The whole gauge was held in one hand, and in a horizontal position, and the end of thin extension was placed under (or over, as required) the extreme end of the relay contact spring.
The gauge worked in one "direction" only. If used "over" a contact, then the gauge was rotated in the hand so the scale is away from the operator.

If the relay contact spring was adjusted correctly, then with slight vertical motion of the whole gauge, the gauge spring mechanism would let go with a definite "click".

Otherwise the actual tension could be measured by turning the knurled knob up or down to determine the click point, thus indicating the tension.

These gauges were used to check the tension of a relay contact against a stationary insulated block, or to check the tension of a moving contact against a fixed contact, when the relay was operated.

The tension was in grams, probably because BPO 3000 relays and earlier types appear to be an Ericsson design.

The gauges were also used for other higher value tension measurements in electromagnetic items eg Strowger units and Uniselectors.

You can see some of the test procedure on page 7 in this document
http://doc.telephonecollectors.info/...type_ocr_r.pdf
Unfortunately only a small section of the end of the gauge extension is shown.

These gauges were included in a larger collection kit of special tools for Telephone Exchange equipment.
And as the 3000 type relays (and 600 type and others) were widely used in equipment rooms and in radio and electronic equipments, the relay adjustment kits were relatively common in the 1960s.

Each kit that I saw and used (only occasionally) had three or four tension gauges, to measure approx 25 to 500 grams.

The kits had other relay tools, and the photo shows what's left of my collection, just a few, with "other" uses.
I have a relay contact stroking tool here somewhere.
Its use, as depicted in the B5144 booklet, is a precision hand skill, but easier after you have done it a hundred times.

You can calibrate these gauges using a small plastic freezer bag (ie about 1 gram) with say 100mL of tap water. Trip point will be 100 gram.

These Gram Gauges are useful, and I would keep them.
They are relatively common though, so sale may not reward a seller as much as first anticipated.

Good luck
.
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Old 25th Feb 2019, 10:03 am   #9
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Any info on how to use Relay gauges BGT No.1

One very useful document on PO3000 relays, including the use of some of these special tools, is A.P.2487 Vol 1, Section 2, Chapter 2. Although an Air Ministry document, I suspect it may well be a Post Office document with an AM 'front sheet'.

The only place I can find this online is in the Wireless Set No. 19 archive, so you need to be registered to be able to download the password-protected file. (Please don't shoot the messenger!)

Andy
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 10:19 am   #10
NickG0HIK
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Default Re: Any info on how to use Relay gauges BGT No.1

Thanks for the information Radio 1950.

I've copied your info into the a folder as well as the linked document, I'm working my way through it

Yes Andy, you keep mentioning the "19 Set" group, I suppose I must take the plunge and try to join it.

Nick
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