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Old 10th Jun 2018, 8:26 pm   #1
PaulR
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Default Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

I have just been watching today's episode of the Antiques Roadshow where they were playing a 78 on an HMV 101 with the arm pointing towards the direction the record was turning. You could see the shellac being pared off by the needle as it cut into the groove of what looked like an immaculate record, presumably from the record library.

I really would have thought that the Roadshow of all programmes would know how to play a record!
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 8:40 pm   #2
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Smile They've done it again!

Hi,
Please forgive the rant, but I had to tell somebody.
I'm watching the Antiques Roadshow Pioneering Women Special, which is fascinating.
But, here's the rub.
They showed an HMV wind-up gramophone playing a record with the needle on the 'wrong' side of the disc! That's three times I've seen this done in as many months on TV programmes. It seems natural that the needle should 'trail' on the right hand side of the disc, as a modern record player does. So I can't see why they keep getting it wrong? I'm surprised it played at all without the needle juddering badly as it dug itself into the shellac!
Rant over.
Cheers, Pete.
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 8:50 pm   #3
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Default Re: They've done it again!

I noticed that too. It's possible that you get a louder output if the poor old needle is being ramrodded instead of trailing. I'm no expert but even the least mechanically minded person wouldn't do that...would they? Surely the record wouldn't last more than a couple of plays. Most odd.
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 9:21 pm   #4
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

I saw that too! In the first clip I wondered why the record was so dirty, with fluff around the needle. Then when it was shown again I realised the record was turning against the needle which must have been digging in and paring the record away!

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Old 10th Jun 2018, 10:02 pm   #5
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

All I got was raised eyebrows from SWMBO when I pointed this out
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 11:06 pm   #6
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

Made my teeth go on edge!

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Old 11th Jun 2018, 12:12 pm   #7
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

Maybe it's a dealer's trick to increase the price of 78s by ruining some? Unruined ones will then cost more.

Is it the same person making the same mistake in several TV shows? TV has a habit of re-using a tame 'expert' over and over gain (for at least a few years). The fact that someone is acknowledged (by someone else) as an expert doesn't mean he actually knows what he is doing.
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 12:15 pm   #8
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

Antiques "experts" are mostly completely clueless when it comes to vintage technology. You see it all the time on programmes like Bargain Hunt and Flog It.
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 1:27 pm   #9
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
Antiques "experts" are mostly completely clueless when it comes to vintage technology. You see it all the time on programmes like Bargain Hunt and Flog It.
You've been very helpful in the past Paul but you can't make me watch Bargain Hunt and Flog It.
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 1:51 pm   #10
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

For some reason I enjoy Bargain Hunt but can't stand Flog It - odd as they are almost identical programmes
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 2:50 pm   #11
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

Another one you might of seen is..

Money For Nothing.

Which starts a repeat run on Quest Red this week.

The basic premise is that young Sarah stands around the local tidy tip picking out items that people dump, and then takes them away to various one man/woman bands to recycle them into something else.

Mostly furniture..but sometimes some very odd things done to electrical items.. the cop out seems to be sticking a bulb on something and turning it into a lamp.
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 3:05 pm   #12
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

The sad thing about the 'wrong way 78' is that you don't actually need to have seen it done right to know how to do it: anyone with any mechanical common-sense should be able to hazard a guess as to the correct orientation. Anyone who claims to know about ancient technology, yet knows nothing about technology, knows nothing of any value about ancient technology - apart from its monetary value, which is the least important thing to know as it simply expresses current fads.
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 3:21 pm   #13
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

I suspect that the Forum gets the "knock on" effect of this job creation scheme [look at the on-costs] and other trendy fads as a direct result Charlie, although I can't prove it. As previously said, experts are generally Manuels ["I know nothing!"] when it comes to electrical/technical items. There's You Tube which has some good info but the people choosing to post there do set out to to be demonstrating or tutoring in the first place-often right from first principles! If nobody takes any notice it's stress free, they have control and probaly wouldn't want to be an "on demand service". It's a bit more complicated here [on a very supportive enthusiasts site] people now arrive with different expectations, levels of understanding, if at all or [effectively] even demands sometimes!

It can't simply be just a coincidence that these various changes have only taken place during the retro/upscaling "boom" [ie fashion] in my view!

Dave

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Old 11th Jun 2018, 3:46 pm   #14
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

I've seen this done countless times on various antiques-related programmes by many different "experts". If they were familiar with the (currently-fashionable) vinyl records, whose players often don't allow the tone arm to be taken to the far side of the disc, it might just occur to them that a 78 on a mechanical player uses the same position.

I wonder, however, whether this common error is related to many gramophones storing the arm at the far side of the disc when not in use.
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 3:52 pm   #15
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

It's been years since i used on of these, but the sheer weight of the head should indicate that the needle will 'trail' satisfactorily...?

I wasn't paying much attention to rotation and just thought the debris was fluff. Rest assured if you point it out they will claim that section of the clip was played backwards for aesthetic reasons, and the music was overdubbed on afterwards. The shards being carved out of the record? No, you imagined it.

For those seeking some content from low budget programming of the Find it, Change it, Sell it genre, Shed and Buried is worth a look. I mean you still get the gratuitous voice-over but at least it's from one of the presenters.
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 6:31 pm   #16
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

For those who don't know about 'Shed & Buried', it's on the Travel Channel (Freeview 42), is presented by Henry Cole & Sam Lovegrove, who travel the country seeking items buried in the nations sheds(hence the title) which they clean up/restore and sell on. The show is Motor Cylcle oriented, but also features various other neglected items with automotive and other mechanical connections.
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 6:40 pm   #17
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

HWMBO was putting the tea out when I saw the offending gramophone.

'There'll be something said about THAT on the forum!!' I quipped.

The owner, as well as the expert seemed equally unaware.
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 7:25 pm   #18
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

Just switched to 42 on Live Wire's advice-there it is "Shed and Buried" [in Bexhill]. [No chance at home in Rammy on the relay]. Thanks for the tip.

Dave
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 7:55 pm   #19
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

Yes I have seen the needle put on the wrong way on similar programs, surprising they don't try doing it with an auto-changer. Shed and Buried is on an endless loop of around half a dozen or so programs, though Sam seems to know what he is doing. With most of these entertainment/documentary type programs what is really annoying is the endless background 'musak' that is added, usually a squawking violin or cello.
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 8:05 pm   #20
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Default Re: Antiques Roadshow playing 78 wrong way round

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
For some reason I enjoy Bargain Hunt but can't stand Flog It - odd as they are almost identical programmes
Same here. Maybe the varied locations of Bargain Hunt make it more attractive.
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