Phono Stage Recommendations

[Beobloke]

As has been said, the best options would be an entry level NAD or Pro-Ject unit - both are fine performers.

If you don't mind second-hand, then a Cambridge Audio Azur 640P for £80-100 punches well above its weight and is still one of my favourite budget phono stages.

[gramophone1]

Thank you for all the replies.

The turntable is an Audio-Technica ATLP120XUSB.

It is an excellent deck, it just needs a better phono stage.

I wanted something that was essentially a plug & play turntable. This fits the bill brilliantly.

[gramophone1]

I will certainly check out the Nad Phono stage.
I don't think I have ever owned any Nad gear before. Are they a UK company ?

I found this on line the Nad PP 2e Phono Preamplifier. It is the latest generation. It retails for £99.
It fits my budget, and the reviews seem decent enough. Is anyone using this model phono stage ?

[Edward Huggins]

Now we know what type of AT turntable this is, and I know this may sound a bit negative, but I'm just wondering if adding a £100-00 preamp to this is going to make any appreciable difference to the overall sound of this (DJ type) deck? Whilst it might be detectable on good quality headphones for normal listening, what amplifier and speakers were you planning to use this with?

[gramophone1]

This particular model has been designed for home use. It has had most of the DJ type features removed. It is being used through a Yamaha AV Receiver. The Yamaha does have a built in phono stage, but from experience they are not the best either.

I think probably a project phono box for around £50 would be the best compromise.
I have not had any major complaints using project gear in the past.

As for the speakers, they are Wharfedale Evo 4.2 speakers. They sound superb.

[TIMTAPE]

The RIAA playback curve was designed to be easily achieved in cartridge preamps. Also MM cartridges have much higher output than MC's so signal to noise is not an issue compared to noise from the disc and turntable. In practice the phono preamp's fidelity should be the least of our worries except in maybe the cheapest designs.

[ajgriff]

Out of interest what makes you unhappy about the sound overall which leads you to believe that neither of the existing phono options are satisfactory? In technical terms it seems unlikely that these relatively recent phono amp designs would be responsible for any significant audible sound degradation.

Alan

[gramophone1]

I am not unhappy with the sound, it is perfectly acceptable. But I know the performance can be much better. The built in phono stage is mainly to make the turntable functional, sound wise at least.

A separate phono stage will allow me get the best performance out the deck, hopefully

The only way is for me to try a phono stage, and see how it sounds.

[AndyWithStuff]

I can recommend the "ART DJ pre 2". its well within your price range.
Look up the reviews on it, for something so inexpensive it got great reviews which convinced me to buy one, albeit on facebook market place,so got it even cheaper.
I'm very happy with the results.

By the way you mention your turntable already has a preamp, so if you buy a independent preamp it has to be connected to an input channel on your amp not in the dedicated turntable input on the amp.

[Radio Wrangler]

We're all technical people with engineering/field repair sorts of backgrounds. Several of us could engineer you an RIAA stage with any degree of accuracy you want, or to any other curve you could sketch, but what we can't do with any confidence is make one that we could feel certain you'd like.

There well be nothing wrong with the RIAA stage in your turntable or that in your Yamaha amplifier, and that an external one would not change anything. Apart from some complete garbage, most RIAA stages have been sufficiently good for some time now that you're unlikely to find bad ones in reasonable equipment and that other parts of your system will be more significant limitations.

I'm worried that you've caught the 'grass is always greener' syndrome. If you just try to treat the symptoms it is usually very expensive and you never find peace.

It costs real money to fix imaginary problems, and you never even get there.

David

[Ted Kendall]

Agreed. If your pickup stages are working properly, then any distortions they introduce will be orders of magnitude less than those caused by pickups themselves or loudspeakers. It's easy enogh to check the electronics over for sensitivity and accuracy, and far cheaper than messing about with this or that expensive black box on spec. The greatest scope for improvement in disc reproduction is in the capabilities of the cartridge and the accuracy of with which it is set up.

[Edward Huggins]

Thanks for advising the rest of your system. Those Wharfedales have always reviewed very well. The weak link may not be your record deck and its on-board pre-amp at all, it might really be in using an AV Receiver for your 2 channel audio? These always present a compromise. Also bear in mind by adding a pre-amp between the turntable and the AUX input on the receiver, you are introducing additional IN and OUT connection points rather than a "straight wire" connection.

[gramophone1]

The turntable allows you to switch between the internal phono preamp, and a line out phono signal to an amplifier or phono preamp.

I am not looking for ultimate vinyl reproduction by any means. I suspect the phono stage inside the turntable will be built with very cheap parts. I could be wrong. If you feel a external phono pre amp is a waste, ie no major improvement in sound, then I might not bother with an external phono pre amp at all.

With regards to cartridge set up, the cartridge was already mounted when I bought the deck.

I assume Audio Technica will have already set the Cartridge up properly, so hopefully that is not an issue.

[paulsherwin]

The preamp shown in #20 is a standard single op-amp design using a commodity audio op-amp. While there are some signs of 'value engineering' in the choice of capacitors, it should provide acceptable service for a mid range system. The preamp inside your AV amp is likely to be similar, or a bit better.

Would spending £100 on an external preamp buy you a £100 improvement in sound? I've no idea, but like others think there's a danger you're getting on the upgrade treadmill for little benefit. Many of us have been there and have the bank statements to prove it.

[gramophone1]

The Yamaha AV Receiver sounds superb in stereo. I have been in to hifi for over 25yrs.
I have owned loads of kit over the years, and had 2 channel amplifiers etc. Modern AV receivers have really improved with regards to stereo. The Yamaha sounds fantastic.

I was never big on vinyl, and I have not owned a turntable for a few years.

[harvestgold]

Another vote for the Art DJ-Pre II, although it's marketed as a DJ product, I took a chance and am very impressed. Compared with the built in pre amp on my Yamaha CR-420 hi-fi receiver it gives a clearer and more enjoyable sound (to my, admittedly, deteriorating ears) and has switchable 100/200pf cartridge matching.

I'm using mine with an Audio Technica AT-LP140XP, with AT-95E cartridge although I've also had it running with my old Rega Planar 2 with similarly good results!

Neil.

[gramophone1]

Thank you for all the replies, and advice.

I have only had the turntable for a couple of weeks. I think I will try the phono stage inside the Yamaha Receiver first.

Thank you for the Art DJ-Pre II recommendations.
Any further thoughts, suggestions, recommendations are most welcome.

[paulsherwin]

Originally Posted by gramophone1

The Yamaha AV Receiver sounds superb in stereo. I have been in to hifi for over 25yrs.
I have owned loads of kit over the years, and had 2 channel amplifiers etc. Modern AV receivers have really improved with regards to stereo. The Yamaha sounds fantastic.

You are right, the hifi world has always been sniffy about AV receivers, but they mostly give excellent results now and have done for a couple of decades. They are bargains secondhand, even if you have no interest in home cinema and just want a stereo audio amp.

[gramophone1]

I am using a Yamaha RXV685 Dolby Atmos AV Receiver, and its brilliant.

Luckily I have the room for the amount of speakers required for home cinema. For music & movies, I love it.

[simpsons]

The phono stage in your Yamaha RX V685 is configured for a MM Cartridge.

Given the quality of this amplifier, I doubt without audio test gear that you will better their RIAA pre amp.

It will be interesting how you describe the difference in audio experience between the AT built in preamp and the Yamaha.

Let us know.

Chris