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Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

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Old 3rd Jul 2019, 7:44 pm   #61
gramophone1
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

So what has gone wrong ? It seems quality has gone backwards with regards to standards.
If you can open the shutters on a mains extension using the earth pin on a mains plug, then that is most definitely worrying.

Most certainly the old bakelite plugs and sockets are a higher quality than what is available today. I have used plastic moulded plugs, and worried the plug lid could come off when unplugging from the socket.
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Old 3rd Jul 2019, 8:55 pm   #62
The Philpott
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

This is certainly why there are 'plug retainers' as well as 'plug collectors'.

Earlier on I was looking at a Prem-I-Air (hmm..) fan heater, part of my other half's collection of rather marginal appliances. The highest setting is 2kW, and the cable is marked 2 x 1.0mm2. 13A fuse of course. I was already disparaging about this since the LED marked POWER does not indicate power is present inside the device- it only illuminates when the switch is rotated to ON.

I have known isolated cases of bakelite plugs tracking and starting to break up, but in all fairness to the material used the problem could have been initiated by an impact crack which then gradually absorbed moisture.

Dave
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Old 3rd Jul 2019, 9:08 pm   #63
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

Quote:
If you can open the shutters on a mains extension using the earth pin on a mains plug, then that is most definitely worrying.
This is a loophole in the BS1363 standard, quite a lot of extension blocks have a large plastic area above the earth pin to stop this, well done makers of same.
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Old 3rd Jul 2019, 10:27 pm   #64
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucien Nunes
I have often wondered whether a superior 'high endurance' plug with some additional clamping arrangement for the fuse, such as a steel spring around the contact clips or even a screw clamping arrangement, might find favour with industrial users.
I doubt so: the world's industrial users invariably use IEC60309/CEE17 connectors - and these don't mess around with in-plug fuses anyway.
I'm an industrial user with hundreds of IEC60309 plugs in service, from 16A 2P+E to 63A 3P+N+E, plus hundreds of 13A plugs for things that have to be plugged into general purpose supplies e.g. at other premises where there might not be a 16A socket available. If you pay top dollar for an IEC60309, you get a really well engineered connector. With BS1363, you get a better one but there's no one brand with all of the common weak points engineered out. The resilient ones with good fuse contacts suffer from tilting pins, etc.
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 12:49 am   #65
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

Re #55, rewireable plugs similar to the 2.5A Europlug, but lacking the pointed sides that are probably necessary for use in Swiss sockets, used to be on sale in the UK. Here's one I bought in a small hardware store in Great Baddow, near Chelmsford, around 20 years ago. Although it has the small 4mm diameter resilient pins, the body says it is rated at 10A. It fits both a German Schuko socket and the French earthed socket, and will easily plug into the early version of the MK 13A socket where the shutters are operated by the simultaneous insertion of the L and N pins and do not have the recesses of the later version that prevent use with Europlugs. The photo also shows a conventional moulded 2.5A Europlug for comparison.

I believe that modern plugs use resilient plastic for at least the cover to comply with an EC regulation.
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 9:50 am   #66
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

That is an Italian 10A plug, made to the standard CEI 23-50 S10, derived from the old 'lighting' plug. The 3-pin version (S11) has the earth pin located centrally between those two; it is not polarised. It has insulated pins because the face of the socket is flat like BS1363, not recessed like Schuko, but they are not inclined as on a Europlug because it is not intended to be mated with anything other than the correct Italian socket.

Italy was unusual in having 10A and 16A plug variants that were deliberately incompatible, using wider pin spacing on the 16A, dating from the days of separate lighting and power tarriffs. It was the 10A that shared the European universally compatible 4mm pins on 19mm centres, hence the 2-pin 10A makes a kind of substitute rewirable Europlug as you say. However, since normal Schuko sockets are only fully rated when used with plugs having 4.8mm pins, the 10A rating is only applicable when mated with Italian sockets that are designed specifically for 4mm pins. Modern Italian sockets often have multiple contact entries for both 10A, 16A and/or Schuko.
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 11:51 am   #67
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

Thanks for the info, Lucien. The plug was in a plastic bag labelled something like "European Plug", amongst the other electrical items in one of those rotating vertical displays that also contained miscellaneous bags of screws, hinges, fuses and other small items. I haven't seen any others like it on sale in the UK.

Rewireable Europlugs used to be (and possibly still are) available in mainland Europe. Here's two from my late brother-in-law's effects in France about 10 years ago, so I don't know when they were made. The right-hand one has an elephant logo and, unusually for continental practice, side cable entry. The left-hand one is by Legrand and, despite its appearance, has rear cable entry. Both are rated at 6A 250V and have the angled Europlug sides. For both plugs, the black base carrying the pins and cord grip simply snaps into its white resilient plastic cover.
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 2:32 pm   #68
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emeritus View Post
Rewireable Europlugs used to be (and possibly still are) available in mainland Europe. Here's two from my late brother-in-law's effects in France about 10 years ago, so I don't know when they were made. The right-hand one has an elephant logo and, unusually for continental practice, side cable entry. The left-hand one is by Legrand and, despite its appearance, has rear cable entry. Both are rated at 6A 250V and have the angled Europlug sides. For both plugs, the black base carrying the pins and cord grip simply snaps into its white resilient plastic cover.
I can confirm this. I bought one a couple of years ago from an electrical shop here in Poland. I can't remember whether the connections needed soldering or had screw terminals, but the plastic cover slid on and would require a lot of fiddling with a small screwdriver or spudger to remove again. It was clearly not intended to be taken apart once assembled. It looks pretty much indistinguishable from a moulded-on one once on the cable - I fitted it to a table lamp.

Here's a similar one from a local DIY store:
https://www.bricoman.pl/elektryka-os...chwytem-czarna
I've used this variety, too, and they're quite a neat design which enables the cable to emerge straight or at a right-angle, and the finger ring removes the temptation to pull on the cable.

Rewireable Europlugs are very much alive and well!

Chris
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 10:53 pm   #69
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

I don't think these are technically Europlugs, i.e. made to CEE7/16 type 2. That standard defines the plug as having a maximum rating of 2.5A whereas these examples are rated at 6A and 10A, and do not appear to have the converging pins that are also specified. The concept of Europlug is that its low rating, slim profile and converging semi-flexible pins alllows it to be used in all known European round-pin sockets, even legacy non-CEE7 types, with minimal risk of arcing or overheating.
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 12:52 pm   #70
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

Point taken. While the plastic body of my 6A plugs does allow some flexing of the pins, it is less than for the 2.5A moulded plug.
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 4:40 pm   #71
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

Does anyone know what the watt ratings are for a 1 amp fuse ?

My VCR is only 18 watts. Will a 1 amp fuse suffice.
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 6:00 pm   #72
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

One amp at 240V is 240W, however a 1 amp fuse may not suffice as the inrush current may blow it. As said before the plug fuse is only to protect the cable.
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 6:22 pm   #73
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

So with a VCR you are probably looking at a 3A fuse. This covers you for charging up the capacitors if the VCR is out of use for a while.
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 6:29 pm   #74
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

I think I've pondered in the past that I'd like to see something like the IEC309 "kettle lead" socket as an alternative to the UK-standard 13A.

Perhaps something like four IEC309s and a single 13A on a double-socket-box sized faceplate?? Given the amount of gear these days that has an IEC309 at the equipment-end of the connecting lead, this would make it possible to use IEC-male to IEC-female leads.

As it is, I have a lot of these sort of things:

https://www.portablepowersolutions.c...iecx4clear.png

down behind cabinets, cupboards etc because they're more compact than 13A trailing outlet-strips.
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 8:08 pm   #75
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

I do know the fuse protects the cable. But I was just curious, as I have a batch of 1 amp fuses, and wanted to experiment to see what I could use them with.
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 9:06 pm   #76
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

1A fuses....? Traditional xmas fairy lights is the first thing that comes to mind.
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 9:19 pm   #77
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

The only place I can remember 1A fuses in any mains-plugs was in the various oddball connectors installed in times-past to power 50Hz-synced electric wall clocks. there was such an outlet (along with a recess in the plaster to take the protruding back of the closk) in the kitchen of my parents' house: in the 1970s the socket and recess were removed and a battery-powered 'Quartz' clock fitted.

[Remember that the 1970s was a time of industrial strife resulting in power-cuts. Having to get the stepladder out and manually reset a mains-synced clock every day following your local-area's assigned power-cut got to be a deep nuisance]
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 10:05 pm   #78
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

I used to use 1A fuses for table lamps and the like. After ran out of suitable Woolworths bulbs (always fitted with fast-acting ballotini fuses), the plug fuse always went when a bulb blew, so now I use 3A fuses.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 12:32 am   #79
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

Clock outlets used the smaller 5/8" fuses
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 4:03 pm   #80
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Default Re: 13 amp fuse for 1.5mm mains flex?

I once has a 13A to shaver adapter that was fused at 1A.
I can't remember the fuse length now though.
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