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Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

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Old 6th Jul 2019, 2:19 am   #1
xfirewirex
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Default Vintage IBM school clock.

Hi

Iím hoping you guys n gals can help me.

I purchased a vintage IBM clock at a great price a few months back.

At the time the ones I looked at had a large housing and could simply be hung on the wall. Mine however doesnít and the mechanism protrudes.

As I understand it a hole must be cut into the wall to make this fit? I canít see any examples of this online. The hanging point seems unusual also. And Iím unsure of the best way to mount. Any advice.

Advice on the best way to wire this 115v clock for UK mains would be hugely appreciated also.

Hereís a pic thatís identical to mine -

Thanks

Michael
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 11:00 am   #2
mark_in_manc
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Default Re: Vintage ibm school clock

Are you sure it is a 115v mains-synchronous clock (and if so is it for 60 or 50Hz supply?) All the IBM (or ITR - International Time Recorders, a name they also used) clocks I have seen are a master-slave arrangement, with the slaves (as I remember) on 24dc, one-per-minute pulses. I have some set up here.
cheers
Mark

(Those question aside - if it were mine I think I would make a slim cupboard to hang on the wall and mount it on the front of).
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 11:10 am   #3
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Default Re: Vintage IBM school clock.

Problems
1. You could make oak doughnut to fix it to the wall.
2. You could fit a 230V to 115V transformer to get the right voltage. This could fit in the doughnut.
3. You could try a resistor to drop the voltage but would need to provide thermal and electrical insulation.
4.If the clock has a synchronus motor intended to be run on 60Hz, then the clock will run slow. You will need to make a circuit to provide an accurate 60Hz at 115V. This can be done by phase locking a 300Hz oscillator to the 50Hz and dividing this by 5 to get 60Hz.
5. Alternatively rip out the original works and replace with a quartz controlled system.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 11:31 am   #4
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Default Re: Vintage IBM school clock.

Before doing anything, I think it's vital to heed Mark's advice and look under the bonnet (or hood, as it's American). You might find a 24v solenoid/pawl arrangement. If so, that would probably make a control circuit easier to implement than a 60-50Hz conversion or mechanical modification.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 11:36 am   #5
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Default Re: Vintage IBM school clock.

I have a friend who acts as old father time on a vintage railway. I have rewound solenoids for his slave clocks (30,000 turns). 24V is used but all slaves are in series and a resistor is used to set a current. For a single slave I would think 6V would be ample.
I think you can get electronic master clocks and GPS receivers may be able to provide pulses at one per second or a 1Hz pulse could be obtained from a cheap quartz movement.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 3:35 pm   #6
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Default Re: Vintage IBM school clock.

Doing a bit of Internet archaeology I have found that the image that Michael posted was from here
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-IBM...-/283531227466
but I still can't get enough resolution to read the label.

This seems to be the same model
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-IBM...-/283531227466
If so, I confess I don't know how it works, because it seems to have a 115v 60Hz motor
and a clutch magnet actuator.

<wild_guess>
So does that mean it runs like a conventional electric clock, and gets reset to 12:00 by the master every midnight?
</wild_guess>
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 3:53 pm   #7
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Default Re: Vintage IBM school clock.

It might be worth looking up the patents mentioned on the label.
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Old 6th Jul 2019, 3:54 pm   #8
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Default Re: Vintage IBM school clock.

This appears to be the image in post 1: http://shop.f-b-inc.com/?pid=111167791
That one is converted to quartz, but it's not his clock.
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Old 8th Jul 2019, 1:01 pm   #9
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Default Re: Vintage IBM school clock.

It isn't 'converted to quartz'.
The clock has been discarded, and someone has made a quartz wall clock using the dial and rear housing.
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Old 8th Jul 2019, 2:07 pm   #10
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Default Re: Vintage IBM school clock.

It could have been worse, "upgraded to" or, heaven forfend, "up cycled" might have been used.

I can't read the original Japanese, but I am offered a translate button

"The movement that used to be an outlet was originally requested by an antique watch repair shop,
and has been replaced with current products and quartz.
The needle reproduces the original to be movable."

Perversely, doing so may have increased its value and saleability.
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Old 8th Jul 2019, 2:33 pm   #11
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Default Re: Vintage IBM school clock.

I only glanced over that originally, but re-reading and allowing for language and translation anomalies, it may be that the original movement lives on somewhere. Immaterial to this thread though.
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Old 8th Jul 2019, 2:48 pm   #12
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Default Re: Vintage IBM school clock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Station X View Post
It might be worth looking up the patents mentioned on the label.
Yes indeed

https://patents.google.com/


us2724233
Device for correcting clocks for errors of more than one hour

us2724232
Clock correcting means of more than one hour range

us2700231
Synchronous motor controlled secondary clock synchronizing device.

The present invention relates to timekeeping apparatus and, more particularly, to secondary clocks and similar timekeeping units of the type normally driven by individual driving motors, as for example, synchronous alternating current motors which are automatically regulated at selected intervals in response to time signals transmitted from a source of correct or standard time. The invention is designed as an improvement over the structure shown and described in Patent 2,569,815 to C. E. Larrabee which was issued on October 2, 1951.

In the patent above referred to the clock mechanism is adapted to be uniformly and continuously driven by means of a synchronous alternating current motor which receives its impulses from the commercial 60-cycle power line. Means are also provided whereby an electrical signal is transmitted to .the secondary clock over the regular power line at a moment which occurs slightly before the fifty-ninth minute of each standard time hour and which terminates at the fifty-ninth minute of the hour, such an impulse serving to initiate a correction cycle whereby,

if the secondary clock is running slow with respect to standard time at the fifty-ninth minute of the hour, it will be brought up to the correct :time during the sixtieth minute of the hour so that when the sixtieth minute is completed and the first minute ,of the next succeeding hour commences, the clock will be accurately synchronized with the standard time source[...]


FULL TEXT HERE
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 12:08 pm   #13
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Default Re: Vintage IBM school clock.

Presumably the clock would run without the correct pulse?

The OP will have problems if it's 115VAC 60Hz though. A functional test to see if the clock runs slowly on 50Hz is the next step.
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 2:34 pm   #14
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Default Re: Vintage IBM school clock.

Where are our resident horologists when we need them

I wonder if the US takes the same care of nullifying mains frequency variations over time?

I don't however think the master clock's hourly interventions are primarily for that, It would, I think, correct any clock(s) if they suffered a power "outage" lasting less than an hour, saving the janitors time.
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 10:08 am   #15
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Default Re: Vintage IBM school clock.

It sounds like an elaboration on the 'waiting train' principle.
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 3:55 pm   #16
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Default Re: Vintage IBM school clock.

I'd agree with that. Gents' waiting train was a brilliant design. QV Google for elaboration.
Though the OP's clock, if 60Hz, would be a sort of reverse, as the waiting train clock ran faster and a pulse from the master stopped it till the correct time came.
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