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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

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Old 5th Nov 2017, 10:03 pm   #21
bikerhifinut
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Default Re: Were all Autochangers Record Grinders?

Seconded.
I've got a few LP's dating from my youth where I know they'd been abused on various autochangers and portables from being taken round to friends houses as we did in those days. And others I have been given that almost certainly were played on similar kit by their original owners.
I found it quite interesting that I can hear how tired these LPs are when I play them with a vintage period or basic cartridge (I have a couple or 3 in my stash and sometimes use them out of curiosity). But although not all respond in this way, many if not most can still sound rather good when played with a more modern "line contact" stylus such as the "Gyger" "Shibata" or Micro fine line etc tips that I assume must dig deeper into the groove and find the part that the old conical, somewhat larger tips havent bounced around so to speak.
The LP is a tougher thing than many would have us believe and I agree with other posters that a lot of old LP damage is more likely due to abuse or neglect from being handled etc.

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Old 5th Nov 2017, 11:06 pm   #22
Richard_FM
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Default Re: Were all Autochangers Record Grinders?

When my Gran got rid of her stereo she let me & my Dad help ourselves to her record collection.

I would like to think my Gran was a careful person but some of the records were in a very scratched condition, maybe she had tried cleaning them with normal polish & a grit filled duster.
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Old 5th Nov 2017, 11:26 pm   #23
bikerhifinut
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Default Re: Were all Autochangers Record Grinders?

Just played an old copy of David Bowies "Aladdin Sane", Apart from a bit of hash on the lead in groove and in between tracks it sounded very good still. i can't remember if i bought this one in a charity shop or was given it but it shows visible evidence of "skidding" on either another LP or a dusty/gritty platter. Some lovely radial curved scuff marks and a bit of surface damage.
But it's still very playable and enjoyable.

A.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 9:37 am   #24
astro63
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Default Re: Were all Autochangers Record Grinders?

so annoying when ive stacked 10 45's on my bsr and go of to do some chores then hear the sweet sound of a disc slipping and the label anti slip teeth grinding away fun times, ive never stacked albums as dont want them scuffed to *******
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 9:43 am   #25
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Default Re: Were all Autochangers Record Grinders?

Many LP's tend to have raised edges and slightly raised label areas, so grooves sliding against each other wasn't necessarily an issue. The Garrard Lab 80 and aforementioned Duals had a gentle 'umbrella style' stacking spindle which claimed to lower records to the platter on a cushion of air, rather than push them off a step in the spindle and 'slapping' them onto the record rotating beneath.

I agree about modern fancy 'fine-line' and similar diamonds finding parts of the groove undamaged by ancient conical styli. Old LP's can be cleaned to good effect too.

P.S. Not sure if these old 'pop' hot single cuts (often the masters were hot as well) transfer well to 'digital' (as in singles compilations on CD), as the mixing techniques used are shown in all their glory without the crystal or ceramic cartridge to balance it out
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 10:33 am   #26
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Default Re: Were all Autochangers Record Grinders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by astro63 View Post
so annoying when ive stacked 10 45's on my bsr and go of to do some chores then hear the sweet sound of a disc slipping and the label anti slip teeth grinding away fun times, ive never stacked albums as dont want them scuffed to *******
I seem to have more problem with 45s slipping on each other today than I remember from the past. I guess that in terms of record wear, the anti-slip teeth may be the first to go!

Incidentally, the one autochanger where I have no trouble with slipping 45s is my original 'large centre hole' little RCA unit. In that, the spindle rotates with the turntable along with the whole stack of discs, so a record is already rotating at 45rpm as it drops.

Martin
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 10:36 am   #27
'LIVEWIRE?'
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Default Re: Were all Autochangers Record Grinders?

One thing which may or may not be significant is that in the 50s & 60s LPs were heavier than those pressed later. When the recent upsurge in vinyl started, with reference to '180g' pressings, out of curiosity I weighed some of my old LPs, several of which were around that weight. Nowadays I seldom play LPs on my autochanger, but I don't recall them slipping too much, if at all, when I did (the odd dished or warped record excepted of course!)
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 11:21 am   #28
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Were all Autochangers Record Grinders?

Yes, slippage on LPs can occur, mostly on 12". However there's a big difference between a surface mark and a scratch. The stylus will always sit lower in the groove than any light damage caused by a surface mark might indicate.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 2:41 pm   #29
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Default Re: Were all Autochangers Record Grinders?

Garrard AT6 with Stanton 500 cartridge

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HMV record player with Balfour Princess and Sonotone 20T from memory

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I LOVE me Duals This is a rebuilt (from scrap) 1214 with alloy 1216 platter and Rega Carbon cartridge (posh AT91 and very good too!)

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Old 10th Nov 2017, 4:19 am   #30
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Default Re: Were all Autochangers Record Grinders?

I don't think autochangers were anything like as bad as they were painted. It was probably more perception than reality. Records did get "played to death", but even a cheaply-made single player can ruin records by mistracking, or by using the 78 rpm stylus tip

I actually have designs on fitting an autochanger with a magnetic cartridge, "just to prove I don't know the difference between can and should". (Probably a BSR UA14 changer out of a common-as-muck UY85 / UL84 "box" record player, just for least sacrilege).
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Old 10th Nov 2017, 6:47 am   #31
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Default Re: Were all Autochangers Record Grinders?

I would turn the question around and ask "were any recordchangers record grinders?"
Julie m
I have fitted an ADC QLM30 mk3 in a UA14 and it works extremely well. Years ago I fitted a G800 into a UA6 and again that worked well too, even though a mate told me it would never work.
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Old 10th Nov 2017, 9:01 am   #32
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Default Re: Were all Autochangers Record Grinders?

Nah! You need a 'proper' one.

This is my Garrard RC65A from around 1946. It plays 10" and 12" 78s mixed with a very ingenious selector mechanism that is not immediately apparent until you load the records and watch!

Magnetic head and gentle sloped record spindle. I have played hundreds of records on it, a lot under adverse conditions outside at dusty vintage truck shows.

All the records have survived but a copy of 'The Deadwood Stage' by Doris Day has been played to death but certainly not damaged by the autochanger. [I have more copies so don't worry fans!] Actually it still plays quite well, an excellent Philips recording.

If I slowed the turntable down I wonder if it would play my mint copy of the Sergeant Pepper album I purchased from Holders Music Store in Victoria Road Surbiton in 1967? Regards, John.
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Old 10th Nov 2017, 9:14 am   #33
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Default Re: Were all Autochangers Record Grinders?

Never come across the RC65A, but it looks a good one for it's time. Was it one of the first changers with auto size detection? Don't know if you're serious abot slowing it down to play LPs (probably not!), but if it has an AC Shaded pole motor, other than running it from a lower voltage (which might not work) I can't think of a straightforward way to do that. Just to finish on a pedantic note, Doris Day (and other U.S. Artistes whose records were issued here by Philips) actually recorded for American Columbia, which, prior to the Philips record label starting up, was issued on the Columbia label in the UK.
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Old 10th Nov 2017, 10:45 pm   #34
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Default Re: Were all Autochangers Record Grinders?

No I was not serious! I use soft tone needles or chrome long play steel needles for autochangers. My LPs are played exclusively on an old HMV wind up.

It must be one of the first and it does it very cleverly. At first I thought it only played 10" records but loading a 12" proved that it did both.

I very much admire the 78 Garrard changers. The later multi speed models never seemed to have that sharp edge. Probably just my old fashioned lifestyle. John.
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Old 11th Nov 2017, 12:26 pm   #35
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Default Re: Were all Autochangers Record Grinders?

I agree that the Garrard RC65A is a very nice precision piece of machinery. The record size detector is a remarkably sensitive yet robust mechanism, just right for the weight of a 78. Never felt the need to try it on lightweight vinyl though!

I was interested to find on mine that its Garrard magnetic head actually uses the later 3-pin plug & socket, though secured by a screw as well. A bit of determined removal has enabled me to fit the later plug-in Decca XMS magnetic head (a la Decola) which give as good 78 reproduction as one could wish, and with its sapphire stylus, no need to keep changing steel needles.

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