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Old 12th Jul 2016, 6:50 pm   #81
ms660
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

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Originally Posted by Nuvistor View Post
I did not know about the service dept in Hale, worked from an office in Hale, early 80's to late 90's. Any memories whereabouts in Hale?
Heading down Ashley Rd from the level crossing, there's Cecil Rd on the right hand side, the shop was on the right hand side about three or four shops down Ashley Rd from the Cecil Rd junction, opposite the shop on the other side of Ashley Rd was a dead end ally, the service dept was down that ally on the left hand side, it was a basement premises, the shop above the basement was a florists back in the day. The service manager was Collin Wright, he had a brother David Wright, David was the proprietor of Van Beck's, a small Hifi shop in Altrincham, it was on the main drag that runs from Chester to Manchester.

I left there after about a year to work for White & Swales, they were down Cecil Rd on the left hand side, the head office was there also, it was called Progress House, they were a good firm to work for.

A bit OT I know but hopefully the Mods will allow.

Lawrence.
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Old 12th Jul 2016, 6:58 pm   #82
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

Hi Lawrence, PM sent.
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Old 13th Jul 2016, 9:09 am   #83
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

Yes David the Hopt tuner used in the PYE 11U. Not a lot of gain and if you were careless in replacing the PC86 and PC88 valves, the ceramic capacitors soldered to the base pins would crack. Also had problems with the lead through capacitors to the heater pins breaking down to the tuner housing robbing the final valves and if I remember the CRT of heater current. 'Oh don't bother with BBC2. We never watch it anyway' and that was from customers you probably think would. John.
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Old 13th Jul 2016, 9:19 am   #84
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

I thought, perhaps wrongly, that Pye eventually used "LHF" valve tuners, made in Lowestoft. They were not very sensitive, I only saw them used on tbe higher channels though.

Yes BBC2 had a " difficult" start but I thought it's remit was to provide something the other two channels did not. Unfortunately that turned out to be a small audience and with poor geographical coverage the audiences must have been very small.
Frank
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Old 14th Jul 2016, 9:49 am   #85
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

The earliest specimen I saw, at the time, was the Murphy V659. A lovely looking thing with a VHF tuner which resembled a pre-sliced pie. The big BUT is it was a 'convertible to' set and I never saw one which had been converted... has anyone? My first actual UHF sets were Murphy V849/Bush TV125 and many of these came sans UHF tuner but at least everything else was there and ready.
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Old 14th Jul 2016, 11:16 am   #86
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

The Pye 11U chassis fitted in Ekco and Ferranti sets plus the Bush125. Those were the earliest sets I saw, some required a tuner others had one fitted.

Frank
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Old 14th Jul 2016, 11:49 am   #87
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

When BBC2 started a friend of mine who was a keen constructor converted his Ecko set to UHF 625.
I cannot remember what model it was I think it had a 17" screen. I know he bought a UHF tuner and an IF strip, the line timebase seemed cope OK.
So I have seen a set on 625 lines with "spot wobble" available! I think the only programme I used to see on that set when visiting him was "That was the week that was"
For myself I bought a Bush kit and converted my parents Bush 19" TV but that was sold as "ready for 625", just fit a rotary tuner, change the IF board, reduce the value of mains dropper for the extra valves, and a few other changes. The Ecko certainly was never meant for 625.
Some Murphy sets were converted by fitting a unit underneath the set.
I agree the early UHF pictures lacked contrast. They got much better once the transistor tuner came along.

John
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Old 14th Jul 2016, 2:33 pm   #88
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

The model after the 11U from Pye, virtually the same chassis but an EF184 instead of I think a PCF80 for the vision I.F, plus seperate preset contrast controls made a big difference. Even with a valve tuner and of course a decent signal the 625 pictures were defiantly better than the 405 ones. I used one at home between 1970 to 74/75 , excellent pictures.

I did refurbish it with new valves, CRT and any other items that were below par.
Frank
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Old 14th Jul 2016, 3:40 pm   #89
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

Can somebody advise whether "Convertable"/"Ready for 625" meant that the set would only then operate on 625 - or did it sometimes mean that such a set that was sold only working on 405 lines could be adapted to be dual-standard?
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Old 14th Jul 2016, 3:55 pm   #90
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

The "Convertible/ready for 625" sets when converted became dual standard. The two most popular channels BBC1 and ITV being on 405 only for several years.
BBC2 (the only channel on 625 back then) was not popular and many people even with dual standard sets watched 405 most of the time.
They then found that if they did switch to 625 it did not work as the valves in the UHF tuner had failed.

John
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Old 14th Jul 2016, 3:58 pm   #91
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

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Can somebody advise whether "Convertable"/"Ready for 625" meant that the set would only then operate on 625 - or did it sometimes mean that such a set that was sold only working on 405 lines could be adapted to be dual-standard?
From what I saw, the intention of sets from about 1963 onwards would be dual standard. I think there was a lot of 'marketing words' on sets produced before that due to all the uncertainty in what the final system would be.

Frank
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Old 15th Jul 2016, 11:24 am   #92
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

I asked about "convertible" because in the mid/late '60s I bought a valve IF strip which evidently was part of a 625 conversion kit from an electronics parts shop in Blackpool (whose name I've now forgotten!). The unit did not come with any valves so I improvised assuming EF183 and EF184. For a UHF tuner I had bought a surplus transistor unit (no cover - so Aluminium foil was used). Finally I displayed the image on a home made oscilloscope (5CP1 CRT) rigged up as a TV with Z mod and a field oscillator fed from a home built sync separator circuit. There is nothing like a green picture to try to recreate the magic of post-war VCR97/ EF50 Ally Pally TVs.

And all this from Winter Hill on BBC2 CH62, whose high channel number and hence frequency made me at the time wonder whether valve UHF tuners would even work there.

For a long time afterwards I had a feeling of sympathy for those folks in the Northern part of East Anglia trying to watch Analogue TV from a mere 100 KW Group C transmitter. I was certain the microVolts would 'run out' for them before the coast-line. I've no idea what it is like there in EA now.
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Old 19th Jul 2016, 12:03 pm   #93
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

This thread is very interesting reading about your early memories of dual standard TV Sets. As a 60's kid I can remember most of the sets you mention from I would say the Pye 11u & GEC 2000 series.
As a TV collector my collection mainly consists of Pye sets, with the odd GEC that was the same model as my parents had when I was growing up, 2001 Electra model.
My earliest dual standard set is the Pye model 2, while it is a dual standard set there has never been a UHF tuner fitted. As can be seen from the photo this is a 17 inch set.
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Old 19th Jul 2016, 6:08 pm   #94
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

My family had this 19" model set (Pye Olympic ) at the start of BBC 2 in my area which was Ely Cambs at the time. The large dial selected both pre-set 405 VHF and UHF 625 channels. We later had the 405 settings disabled to receive UHF on every position. We used to get both Anglia and Yorkshire tv after the Belmont transmitter changed from radiating Anglia tv to Yorkshire at some point. Have been searching for a well preserved one for some years so I guess they must be quite rare by now. Was pretty reliable in the 10 years we owned it.
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Old 19th Jul 2016, 6:44 pm   #95
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

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Originally Posted by Nicklyons2 View Post
The earliest specimen I saw, at the time, was the Murphy V659. A lovely looking thing with a VHF tuner which resembled a pre-sliced pie. The big BUT is it was a 'convertible to' set and I never saw one which had been converted... has anyone?
They worked very well And must have been the easiest conversion of all time. It was simply a matter of turning the receiver on end,removing the locking screw on the 405/625 system switch, screwing the 'plinth' to the underside of the cabinet, inserting the octal plug from the unit to the socket mounted on the bottom of the chassis after removing the blanking plate and the job was done. The conversion unit worked very well containing a UHF tuner and complete IF strip.
One rather quaint oddity was that you had to wait for the valves to warm up in the converter when 625 was selected and again when returning to 405. I would like to obtain a 'plinth' converter. I have an excellent example of the V759 and it would be nice to find a conversion unit. I have no doubt one will turn up when least expected.
Very few of this series survived. The Early Mazda CME1901 and the 23" CME2301 tubes were a disaster failing just out of guarantee. Add to this a delicate and expensive oil filled line output transformer that could only be obtained from your local Murphy dealer and you had a receiver that was too expensive to overhaul for resale. Many were reluctantly scrapped prematurely. They also had design faults requiring tiresome modifications but once sorted out were quite outstanding performers. Murphy Radio's last chassis before the Rank take over including a motor driven remote control model with dual channel relay amplifiers and tuning forks for channel change and muting! Don't ask but it worked very well. Regards, John.
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Old 19th Jul 2016, 7:01 pm   #96
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

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My earliest dual standard set is the Pye model 2, while it is a dual standard set there has never been a UHF tuner fitted. As can be seen from the photo this is a 17 inch set.
The 700D was the first PYE fully operational dual standard receiver and that believe it or not dated from 1961!
The model 1 and 2 employed the 700DU [with UHF tuner] chassis with a short neck 110 degree 17" tube [AW43-89]
The model 1 the 'Pioneer' had a terrible plastic cabinet with clips that retained [?] the back cover. They broke and were unrepairable leaving the back dangerously loose.
Many were encountered in the field wrapped up with parcel tape rather like an Egyptian 'Mummy' that had to be unwrapped before servicing could commence.
The sound intercarrier could be aligned for 5.5 or 6mc/s by fitting either brass or dust cores as the final standards had not been agreed as early as 1961.
The UHF tuner was simply switched into circuit replacing the VHF one, a PYE incremental. The IF signal did not pass through the mixer stage of the VHF tuner giving extra gain on UHF as was the norm in practically all early dual standard chassis. With a good aerial quite good results could be obtained on UHF but the picture lacked 'punch'. Those plastic cabinets have given me a nervous twitch. How could a company with a good reputation like PYE turn out such a nasty 'cabinet'. Pye seemed to 'burp' every now and then leaving the poor dealers to sort out the mess. The model 2 sported a conventional plywood case of good quality giving a nice appearance all round. Where have the last 50 years gone? Regards, John.
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Old 20th Jul 2016, 12:14 pm   #97
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

Now I know where Pye got the idea for the fixings on the CT205 fifteen years later!
Those plinth converters used to turn up frequently as surplus stock for experimenters so one may still turn up.
Glyn
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Old 21st Jul 2016, 1:36 pm   #98
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Originally Posted by michamoo View Post
My family had this 19" model set (Pye Olympic ) at the start of BBC 2 in my area which was Ely Cambs at the time. The large dial selected both pre-set 405 VHF and UHF 625 channels. We later had the 405 settings disabled to receive UHF on every position.
That sounds familiar. Was there an Invicta version?
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Old 21st Jul 2016, 3:22 pm   #99
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

It is my ambition to recreate a converted Thorn 700 series convertible TV set.
I've already have the 625 plug in conversion unit. Models to look out for are the Ferguson "Senator" model 705T phase II, the later version of the 727T.
Even better because they have posh cabinets are the HMV versions.

DFWB.
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Old 23rd Jul 2016, 8:36 am   #100
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Default Re: Earliest BBC2 Sets?

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Was there an Invicta version?
There was. I have a 19" version.
I have an early Ekco dual standard fitted with the 11U chassis. It works well on 405 but the UHF tuner is dead. I tried new valves that didn't cure it so I gave up for the time being!

Rich.
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