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Old 12th Jul 2017, 9:14 am   #101
Hybrid tellies
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

I am a bit of a night owl and have noticed how much brighter the light bulbs seem to burn in the small hours, no fancy LED or CFL bulbs in my house. On measuring the AC mains it does go right up to 252v where its normally 235volts during the day. Sometimes between midnight and 1am all the lights in the house flicker and bounce quite alarmingly. They are to fast to measure but I am only seeing this as I still use ordinary light bulbs. I would imagine these power dips could be causing quite a bit of noise and a few surges. I suspect this is down to grid switching or heavy equipment switching in from the nearby retail and industrial estates where some businesses run 24/7.
So from my own experience I still like to switch off or unplug equipment from the mains if I can.
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 9:29 am   #102
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

The original design of MK socket (mid-1970's) where the shutter is operated by the simultaneous insertion of the L and N pins, does not include the recesses of the later design that prevent insertion of a Europlug: I have a couple of the original design of socket. The patents for both the original and later designs of shutters operable by only 2 pins have long since expired, and I have seen the early type of shutter used by other manufacturers and in 2-pin mains sockets in mainland Europe.

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Old 12th Jul 2017, 10:33 am   #103
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

I dumped an electric kettle because when left powered over night it sometimes went bang for no reason. It took some time to trace where the banging was coming from.
The kettle had a plastic level gauge that was not the same type of plastic as the body of the kettle fitted with a useless seal.
It filled up with water so the idiots in the factory changed the base molding to include a little hole for the water to get out.
The water was getting into the live base and the power was blowing it off every now and again.
Always make sure you can see the construction of kettles close to the bottom of the level indicator without any bits of trim to hide bodges of this nature. Expensive models are not immune to this.
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 11:26 am   #104
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

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Originally Posted by Hybrid tellies View Post
I am a bit of a night owl and have noticed how much brighter the light bulbs seem to burn in the small hours, no fancy LED or CFL bulbs in my house. On measuring the AC mains it does go right up to 252v where its normally 235volts during the day. Sometimes between midnight and 1am all the lights in the house flicker and bounce quite alarmingly. They are to fast to measure but I am only seeing this as I still use ordinary light bulbs. I would imagine these power dips could be causing quite a bit of noise and a few surges. I suspect this is down to grid switching or heavy equipment switching in from the nearby retail and industrial estates where some businesses run 24/7..
Sounds like transformer "Tap-changing" at your local substation. It should only generate a brief spike of interference when the tap is actually being changed (half a cycle at most!).
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 3:47 pm   #105
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

When you think about it the internal wiring in some old TVs was in the terms of safety was not the best. Take the Bush TV22 for example, between the mains supply plug at the back of the set to the on-off switch is old fashioned rubber wiring, all crumbly and brittle. Would anyone risk leaving this type of set plugged into the mains unattended? Even some more recent sets have had issues concerning safety, I remember in the '80s ITT recalling certain models on account the on-off switch or the PCB it was soldered to having burn up issues. Ferguson issued a replacement switch for certain ICC5 models because the original Lorlin switch would burn up around the solder tags.
Didn't Sony have a recall on some of the companies' models? Again switch problems.

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Old 12th Jul 2017, 9:46 pm   #106
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

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Originally Posted by julie_m View Post
Even although there are patented alternatives reckoned superior to the common BS1363 socket shutter (whatever happened to the spirit of Jonas Salk?), why would any manufacturer pay the royalties just to make a socket which is ever so slightly safer than a standard which is already deemed safe enough, knowing that they would always be playing second fiddle to the original inventors? Better to pass on the savings from making the best power socket faceplates you can without licensing unnecessary patents -- and try to time it so your mould tools don't begin wearing out until said patents have expired.
Julie, MK, Hager and Legrand sockets all use different patented three-pin operated mechanisms, the result is similar, but the way it is achieved is different in each case. I am not aware of any manufacturer who makes a licensed version of any of those three designs. I do not have great familiarity with those who specify what accessories are used in new-builds, but the two architects I do know make a practice of specifying three-pin operation. Why skimp a few pence per socket when a greatly superior solution is available?
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 10:45 pm   #107
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

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Julie, MK, Hager and Legrand sockets all use different patented three-pin operated mechanisms, the result is similar, but the way it is achieved is different in each case. I am not aware of any manufacturer who makes a licensed version of any of those three designs. I do not have great familiarity with those who specify what accessories are used in new-builds, but the two architects I do know make a practice of specifying three-pin operation. Why skimp a few pence per socket when a greatly superior solution is available?
That's indeed very laudable.
I am concerned about the sockets of poor build quality that have one or more 5V USB outlets on the faceplate. The sockets in this house are over 40 years old and as good as new. It's unthinkable that USB "A" plugs will not be depreciated in 2057

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Old 12th Jul 2017, 11:15 pm   #108
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

Are those sockets with USB ports on them supposed to go "pop" and carry on working like a normal outlet once they fail?
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 11:43 pm   #109
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

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Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
When you think about it the internal wiring in some old TVs was in the terms of safety was not the best. Take the Bush TV22 for example, between the mains supply plug at the back of the set to the on-off switch is old fashioned rubber wiring, all crumbly and brittle. Would anyone risk leaving this type of set plugged into the mains unattended? Even some more recent sets have had issues concerning safety, I remember in the '80s ITT recalling certain models on account the on-off switch or the PCB it was soldered to having burn up issues. Ferguson issued a replacement switch for certain ICC5 models because the original Lorlin switch would burn up around the solder tags.
The rubber wiring wold have been fine within the 10-15 years service life of the set.
In some ways I would trust a 50s vintage set not to spontaneously combust, more than I would a '70s one.
Valves and paxolin PCBs may have saved money and time on the production line, but made set fires more common in my opinion.
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Old 13th Jul 2017, 8:20 am   #110
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

Be careful Steptoesyard, I thought the same with regards to the fuse in fridge freezer plug, and fitted a 5A fuse. A brief power supply interruption (long enough for the compressor to stop rotating, but not enough for the internal working pressure to subside) and the motor start current ruptured the 5A fuse. Obviously yours may be OK with a 5A fuse in this situation , and the above duration of power drop out doesn't happen very often, but a 7A or 10A fuse might be better
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Old 13th Jul 2017, 10:52 am   #111
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

Modern fridges have a thermal timer that is supposed to stop fuse blowing due to short power cuts.
They are grossly under rated and turn to charcoal if a gnat lands on the cabinet.
Doors that stuck a quarter of an inch open are a common cause of failure of these so called safety devices.
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Old 13th Jul 2017, 11:42 am   #112
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

Hi
Ref post #105 - Sony did indeed have a problem with their 2092's mains switch (Preh white) and similar. I've seen one or two that have very little cabinet left. To their credit, Sony supplied a kit to repair this with a different type of switch, a sub-PCB and a small green blob you attached to the rear cover to prove the recall had been done. Since this switch wasn't known for combustion - they often failed in other sets, but controllably - I assume the very high inrush current needed to degauss a Trinitron tube (two posistors) was to blame.
The ICC5's switch frequently combusted, as did one fitted to the Philips sets of a similar era. Again. modified parts were supplied, but I don't think a recall was in place for these. We all know about the Thorn 1615 which were recalled by Radio Rentals due to print arcing.
Some years ago I was alarmed to hear of a house fire in town - no-one injured but it was caused by the TV - the one I'd just repaired and delivered! You can imagine the ice-cold feeling in my stomach - and the sense of relief when the fire officer announced that it was due to the occupant having left a burning candle on top of the plastic cabinet. No matter how safe you make equipment you can't allow for human behaviour.
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Old 13th Jul 2017, 11:55 am   #113
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

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Are those sockets with USB ports on them supposed to go "pop" and carry on working like a normal outlet once they fail?
I've just installed some MK versions of these. Do they have a reputation for going 'pop'?
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Old 13th Jul 2017, 12:12 pm   #114
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

I don't see the point of paying for a 1 year life wall wart while changing a socket only to leave a useless hole in the front plate to confuse anybody else whom did not hear the audio output from it going pop.
Even when they are working they can still make some batteries go off in a much more spectacular way due to them not being limited to 500ma.
They are a no fit for me.
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Old 13th Jul 2017, 12:29 pm   #115
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

I shall await the pop then.
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Old 13th Jul 2017, 12:36 pm   #116
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

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Be careful Steptoesyard, I thought the same with regards to the fuse in fridge freezer plug, and fitted a 5A fuse. A brief power supply interruption (long enough for the compressor to stop rotating, but not enough for the internal working pressure to subside) and the motor start current ruptured the 5A fuse. Obviously yours may be OK with a 5A fuse in this situation , and the above duration of power drop out doesn't happen very often, but a 7A or 10A fuse might be better
I do agree with you, but I`d rather have a blown fuse and lose a few groceries, than the alternative burnt out kitchen, or entire house
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Old 13th Jul 2017, 4:02 pm   #117
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

I find this discussion fascinating as I don't think unplugging electronics or appliances was ever that common here in the US. The exceptions were when someone left on vacation or during a lightning storm.

In fact, toward the end of the tube era some TV's and radios had an "instant on" feature that kept a reduced voltage going to the filaments to keep them warm so they would begin emitting faster when the device was turned on.

Outlet switches are not common at all here in the US for newer homes, but some older ones I know of had at least one outlet switched at the wall by the front door. That was so you could plug in a lamp and switch it on as soon as you came home. I had an aunt that kept her TV plugged into that switched outlet so she could keep the TV turned on to the same volume all the time and just use the wall switch.

Before remotes, it was not unusual to find hotels/motels that had their TV's plugged into an outlet that had a wall switch by the bed. That way a guest could turn off the TV without getting out of bed.
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Old 13th Jul 2017, 5:25 pm   #118
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

Quote:
Before remotes, it was not unusual to find hotels/motels that had their TV's plugged into an outlet that had a wall switch by the bed. That way a guest could turn off the TV without getting out of bed.
I was just going to type much the same thing!
I spent a lot of time in the '80s in the big Manchester hotels installing and maintaining TVs

Our company first started to offer remote sets in 1974 and it took a few years for them not to be seen as a luxury.

I imagine the US was well ahead in this area by then.
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Old 13th Jul 2017, 6:57 pm   #119
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

I work in the hotel business, and actually remotes didn't become common until the late 80s, and you could still buy remote-less sets well into the 90s. I remember the thinking among many hotel owners was that remotes were easily stolen by guests believing they could use them on their home TV. So, hotels didn't want to use them until the replacement costs got low enough that they could afford to loose a few. Even then, many hotels used rather clumsy lock down devices to try to keep the remote in the room.

When remotes became common, the older hotels had to bypass the switch between the beds and put a cover plate over the wall box because the sets would have to be re-programmed every time they lost power. I remember staying at one hotel that you could see the outline of the box through the wallpaper. I felt it and realized they didn't bother to put a protective plate over it, they just papered over an open box!
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Old 13th Jul 2017, 6:57 pm   #120
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

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Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak View Post
Sony did indeed have a problem with their 2092's mains switch (Preh white) and similar. I've seen one or two that have very little cabinet left. To their credit, Sony supplied a kit to repair this with a different type of switch, a sub-PCB and a small green blob you attached to the rear cover to prove the recall had been done.
That switch caused a few problems in various models mainly due to the printed wiring tags working loose over a period producing bad arcing.

The Sony 2090 series also suffered from very severe arcing due to dry joints on two power resistors in the centre of the P/C board. These were modified by remote mounting on a small sub board using very high melting point solder.

Strangely did Sony not announce some years back that all their CRT models were a fire hazard. Very odd and the announcement was soon deleted.

These faults occurred during actual use but to cause such damage I suspect that many receivers were left switched on unattended. John.
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