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Old 30th Jul 2018, 4:39 pm   #41
landlesspesant
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

So after far to much soul searching , navel gazing, and hair pulling .. I have just put in an order. To the values found on the board, and not the schematics posted here ... For. Solen MKP 400v ... With the exception of a 600v 1uF to run in parallel with the 400v 2.2uF .. to get the 3.7 uF
Falon acustics in there blurb seem to be recomending the Alcap .. but charging more for MKP ... !!!
So now I have my usual buyers regret ... But that was always gonna happen
Here is the list ... Probably arrive Thursday or Friday
Item
Sku Qty Subtotal Solen 1.00uF 630V DC Polypropylene Capacitor Capacitor Tolerance 5% PPE100-+5% 2 £3.16 Solen 1.50uF 400V DC Polypropylene Capacitor Capacitor Tolerance 5% PB150-+5% 2 £3.16 Solen 2.20uF 400V DC Polypropylene Capacitor Capacitor Tolerance 5% PB220-+5% 6 £10.98 Solen 25.00uF 400V DC Polypropylene Capacitor Capacitor Tolerance 5% PB2500-+5% 2 £13.84 Subtotal £31.14 Shipping & Handling £4.50 Vat £7.13 Grand Total £42.77

Let me thank every one for getting me this far
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 6:36 pm   #42
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

Ouch! That's an expensive shopplng list....
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 7:20 pm   #43
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

I'd suggest that recommending something other than the highest-priced item indicates a degree of integrity. They may well keep the MKPs because some customers prefer to follow their own opinions, rightly or wrongly.
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 9:16 pm   #44
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

It will be revealing to learn as to how this re-work ensues. I have often recommended the use of so called "audio grade" caps and possibly taking the risk of being labelled an Audiofool in the process. But in speakers as old as these, I am just not so sure?
Perhaps I also have a inbuilt resistance to "blanket re-capping". Let's see how it goes....
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 11:42 pm   #45
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

It's an interesting thread. Will you do what I did (me through laziness I have to admit) and re-cap one to compare with the other? I'll be happy to show you mine if I can have a listen to yours as we are not far apart. Something I haven't got around to (either!) is replacing the rather thin internal wiring in my Radfords with something more substantial - I sold an old STA25 to a gentleman from NAIM who assured me he had done that to a pair of S60s and it made a huge difference - worth an hour or so's fiddling I would think.
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 6:03 am   #46
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

£42 does seem a bit steep, but whatever the OP used was going to cost a few bob. I hope your not disappointed. If you'd have used those caps I linked to, it might have cost around that, but I think you weren't comforable with that, and as a neophyte so to speak didn't get the parallel cap "law".

BTW Edward, could you explain what an audio grade cap is? How does it differ from your bog standard cap? That is if we except that there might be a difference in the first place and don't just diss the spiel out of hand and try to remain open minded.

Take Roger up on his offer if you can, I'd be interested in the results.

Andy.
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 8:59 am   #47
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

I guess I meant the diference between an 89p, 2.2uf Alcap and a £3.45 Solon of the same value. Please re-read my Post #44, I had hoped that my comments would show an open mindedness in seeing just how the work proceeds....
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 5:35 pm   #48
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by RojDW48 View Post
It's an interesting thread. Will you do what I did (me through laziness I have to admit) and re-cap one to compare with the other? I'll be happy to show you mine if I can have a listen to yours as we are not far apart. Something I haven't got around to (either!) is replacing the rather thin internal wiring in my Radfords with something more substantial - I sold an old STA25 to a gentleman from NAIM who assured me he had done that to a pair of S60s and it made a huge difference - worth an hour or so's fiddling I would think.
Hi Roj
That sounds like a great Idea ... I'll pm you my phone number.
The caps should arrive tomorrow .. fingers crossed ..
I'm not sure if i will be doing it one speaker then test etc .. But I will deffo be testing v my old pair to see if its worth doing them as well ...
I hope to do it tomorrow or Friday ...
Dom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diabolical Artificer View Post
£42 does seem a bit steep, but whatever the OP used was going to cost a few bob. I hope your not disappointed. If you'd have used those caps I linked to, it might have cost around that, but I think you weren't comforable with that, and as a neophyte so to speak didn't get the parallel cap "law".
Hi Andy ... thanks for that link .. I went with Falcon cos their web site had the prices for every one to see ... ... And its a known "" Name " so should I want to sell the speakers on .. the name will sell it a bit , I think .

What is the parallel cap "Law" ??
To be honest I had to look up the word "" Neophite ""
Cheers Dom
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 5:53 pm   #49
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by dseymo1 View Post
I'd suggest that recommending something other than the highest-priced item indicates a degree of integrity. They may well keep the MKPs because some customers prefer to follow their own opinions, rightly or wrongly.
Yeah I agree .. This is what they say about Alcap ....

""Alcap 50V & 100V Low Loss Capacitors. Genuine Low Loss capacitors, low ESR, high ripple current. Exclusive to Falcon, specified by KEF and many other manufacturers.

Used in more critical applications than the Standard 50V, e.g. as series feed to a tweeter where high efficiency is desired. Maximum DF is lower than other types at 5% @ 1 KHz. Available in 50V & 100V DC working (depending on value). 50V Low Loss are being phased out and replaced with 100V Low Loss.

A loudspeaker which has been voiced using Alcap Low Loss capacitors or where Alcap Low Loss capacitors are replacing original black ELCAP Low Loss capacitors (marked LL) will remain true to the designer's intended sound character..""



And what they say about Solen MKP .. is not as glowing .. !! And yet I still went with MKP .. Partly cos it was possible to get the values closer to the ones I found on the board ... But If I had gone with the numbers on the schematic .. I could have used the cheaper Alcap 50v and 100v

""Solen 400V Capacitors are metallized polypropylene film capacitors offering exceptional value for money. Made by SCR to Solen’s FAST CAP AUDIO Specification, specified by HiFi World in their Kits and used by many top UK HiFi manufacturers. Falcon stocks a full range of 400V types and a large range of 630V types. Both types are for use in loudspeaker crossover networks, offering excellent value, a wide dynamic range and improved sound.""


After reading the 2 blurbs .. Which would you go with ?? Thats a question for every one

Cheers Dom

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Originally Posted by Edward Huggins View Post
Ouch! That's an expensive shopplng list....
The Alcaps would have been cheaper ... LOL
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 3:05 pm   #50
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

So the caps arrive ,,,,, And I damage the 1st one I put in

Do I have to bin this one and re order another ... Or will it be ok ??
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 3:54 pm   #51
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

Looks superficial so with any luck it'll be ok.

Alan
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 4:11 pm   #52
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

Cheers That's what I'm hoping
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 5:09 pm   #53
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

I know you're new to all of this, but the soldering does not look too good. You need to make sure all the wires and the board tag are connected and fully bonded and not just covered in a solder blob which may mask a "dry" joint. It would help if you shortened those cap leads to the correct length rather than winding them around each other.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 7:23 pm   #54
landlesspesant
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

Thanks ... I've been carefully checking for a dry joint ... my skill level is brutal lol ... but some of those joints are nothing to do with me
PS the camera angle makes the cap leads look more meandering than they really are ... I hope
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 8:16 pm   #55
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

Well I've just plugged them in ...
My first reaction is ..... I don't think I've made them worse

I'll let you what I think in a week or so.

Time for a beer.

A really big big thanks for every ones help

Dom
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Old 17th Sep 2018, 4:15 pm   #56
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

Hi there ... Well .. I said it would take me a week to listen to them .... well life got in the way ,and 6 weeks later I have just swapped back to my old un touched pair ...
I'm now gonna listen to them for a week or so ...
The new caps and fixing the internal bracing of the cab, have really sweetened up the sound. .Pretty much across the whole spectrum ..tightening up the base and clearing the treble ... And I would recommend it to any one with speakers this old.
After playing just 2 songs .. on the un mod 25's I can literaly see!!! and hear the response is lacking some definition in the bass that the recapped ones now have ..
Thanks every one .. And sorry it took so long to give the revue
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Old 24th Sep 2018, 3:57 pm   #57
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Default Re: Celestion Ditton 25 help needed

After listening to the old pair for a week .. the difference is really noticeable
I am in no doubt the recapped pair are far superior
And I have changed back today .. And will deffo proceed with the recapping of the old pair .. I hope they come up as good coz I prefer the old cabinets
And also I have a pair of 50+ year old 10 inch RED dual concentric Tannoy Cadets to work on ... these I have really high hopes for

SUMMARY

VERY VERY HAPPY WITH THE RESULTS
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