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Clubs, Groups and Societies For discussions about various clubs, groups and societies relating to our hobbies, such as the BVWS (incl RetroTechUK), BATC, RSGB, APTS, CLPGS, THG, TCC, BECG, MCR21 etc. This is NOT an official forum for any of these organisations.

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Old 28th Dec 2006, 9:25 pm   #1
Ed_Dinning
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Default ON-Line Auction?

Hi Gents, just received my BVWS Bull after the Xmas rush (thanks PO!); in it is see details of the overfilled storage for BWVS auctions.
These are normally held in the south, a long way for many of us "Up North" to travel. There are now increasing numbers of us in what was "North Humber Land".
Would it be possible to run an on-line auction on the forum, for items from the store as a means of generating funds, reducing storage and giving us all an equal crack of the whip?
As an alternative, could we have published the auction list for all to read and leave bids on an item? There would obviously need to be a proviso about collection of won lots etc.

Thoughts please people.

Ed
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Old 28th Dec 2006, 9:39 pm   #2
Dave Moll
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Default Re: ON-Line Auction?

The appropriate location for a BVWS online auction would presumably be the BVWS website, except that the BVWS doesn't have a forum for responses.

I believe that BVWS does publish an auction catalogue in advance of its auctions. At least, I'm looking forward to one for the auction in Wootton Bassett on 14th January - which I will be unable to attend in person. If there is anything of interest to me, I would hope to be able to leave a "commission bid" for it.


Don't forget, of course, the BVWS auctions are only open to its members.
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Old 28th Dec 2006, 9:42 pm   #3
Sean Williams
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Default Re: ON-Line Auction?

I doubt this will see much in the way of progress, no matter how good the idea might be - the main problem with BVWS auctions would be that they are members only - we have a large number of non members on the forum, so how would you police it?

Perhaps an open day at the store?

I really do not know the answer to this, but would guess that the WB sales will be the only method of disposal - A pity really, as I cannot be bothered with a slog down the M4........

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Old 28th Dec 2006, 10:08 pm   #4
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Default Re: ON-Line Auction?

The problem with any sort of sale that does not involve buyers physically being there is the issue of posting or otherwise getting the sets to the buyers. It would take a lot of time to sort, pack and despatch items, plus the cost of the packing materials and carriage to charge onto the buyers. Then there is the risk of damage, the hassle of making claims against the carrier, etc.

Then there is the matter of whether the same is open to BVWS members only or to everyone, and whether non-members would have to pay extra.

Selling through a site such as eBay would incur additional costs (listing fees, PayPal fees etc) which would have to be covered somehow.

The aim of the auctions and sales is to get as much money as possible for the vendor, not to lose it all in costs, fees and expenses.

From my sale of around 50 sets earlier this year I can tell you that this is a lot of hassle, and I personally would not fancy doing that again with that quantity let alone with several hundred sets.

If the BVWS did decide to take that approach it would need volunteers (with a lot of patience!) who can get to the warehouse in Swindon, probably over several days spread over some weeks (so would need to be local) to do it. Anyone having to travel any significant distance or stay in a hotel overnight would cost money in expenses, which would have to be added onto the sale price.

Personally I do not think it is a viable idea. However that is my opinion, not the opinion of the committee (who obviously have not discussed it yet). The next committee meeting is 5th January, so if something that appears viable comes out of the discussion here, I could raise it at that meeting.
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Old 29th Dec 2006, 1:13 am   #5
stephanie
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Default Re: ON-Line Auction?

Those of us who can't get to these auctions (because we live half a world away), would be very glad if some of them were held on line.

But I'm just biased....
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Old 29th Dec 2006, 6:26 pm   #6
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Default Re: ON-Line Auction?

Hi Folks, glad to see it has raised some interest. I believe the "BWVS only" issue can easily be dealt with from membership records. The bigger problem is, as Paul points out, the dispatch of the goods after the auction; not least of which is the packaging.
A widely publicised listing of the items to be auctioned would be a good help as a starter.
Perhaps we should then say that collection was mandatory within 4? weeks of auction or sale is void (possible with a penalty payment).
A much wanted item should mean a trip is worthwhile or something could be arranged by forum/BWVS "stagecoach".
I believe some of the carriers do a packing service as well as dispatch; this may be an avenue to explore.
Any more ideas for committee discussions?

Ed
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Old 29th Dec 2006, 6:42 pm   #7
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Default Re: ON-Line Auction?

With regards to transport, maybe a service could be set up by BVWS members, separate from the actual organisation.


I'm thinking, maybe some folks (retired members perhaps) wouldn't mind delivering the lots around the country in exchange for "beer / radio tokens" to help finance their own collection and restoration funds. I'm sure people wouldn't mind paying a reasonable sum to have their "finds" delivered by a conscientious and sympathetic courier . If goods were delivered this way, then packing wouldn't be such an issue
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Old 29th Dec 2006, 7:03 pm   #8
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Default Re: ON-Line Auction?

Excuse my adding the two p worth here, but as a non-member of the BVWS it may be easier to suggest things without being bound by any pre-conceived ideas about what is acceptable.

On any other online auction, it is the resposibility of the vendor of a sold item to offer a means by which the buyer may take possession of their item, ie, quote a charge and offer to send it or request that the buyer collects the item, either way why could not the same apply here?

People would presumably retain possession of their items until sold, otherwise where's the advantage in selling by this method? By that logic, then each seller could pack their own item(s).

This would still provide buyers with greater peace of mind than does buying from a general online venue where it can be hard to distinguish the genuine specialist sellers from those who resell the contents of house clearance sales, skips and the obligatory relatives' lofts.

The above suggestion would make it difficult for non members to use the facility, but as a non-member [of the BVWS] the obvious answer is to join the organisation whose facilities you want to use, as one would join the relevant owners' club to find a particular car, then stay around for years afterwards having realised that they're more than a one-trick pony and that membership will lead to new friendships and useful contacts for parts, closed-shop events and organisers of stands for shows and fetes.

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Old 29th Dec 2006, 9:01 pm   #9
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Default Re: ON-Line Auction?

Reading the initial posting of this thread, mention was made of the 'overfilled storage for BWVS (sic) auctions'.

I'm wondering why this is. Is it a case of more radios being put forward for auction than are actually sellable ? I'm visualising a situation wherein radios go for auction, attract no interest and then simply end up back in ever-decreasing storage space.

Disposal by means other than WB is clearly a problem as this thread has made clear, so if what I've said above is correct then surely it would be more sensible for whoever is responsible within the BVWS to be more selective regarding what does and does not go into store for auctioning at a later date ?

My apologies if anybody feels I'm being negative or throwing a spanner in the works, but I'm just pondering over why this problem - if that's the word - has arisen in the first place.
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Old 29th Dec 2006, 9:28 pm   #10
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Default Re: ON-Line Auction?

I don’t think an on-line BVWS auction is a good idea. For a start, not every BVWS member is online !

A catalogue will be published in advance, and I believe bids can be sent if you can’t make the day of the auction, though presumably provided some arrangements are in place for collection. Now, this last point is of particular importance with this auction – the special auction is being driven by the need to clear storage, so the last thing the BVWS wants it to be storing anything after the auction.

Even if the effort needed in packing and couriering a lot of items were available (which it isn’t), bear in mind there will probably be a lot of items you really wouldn’t like to trust to couriers anyway. There have been several threads before now of the sad fate of (usually larger) items trusted to couriers.

Also consider the sellers. Better items often fetch better prices at a BVWS auction than they do on, say, Ebay. For a start, you get to have a good look at an item before you buy – very important for more expensive items. Also, because everything is in one place there may well be more bidders ; for example, there have been several TV’s I would have liked on Ebay but buying one-offs from here there and everywhere just wasn’t going to happen. If those exact same sets had all been in one location in an auction it would have been more worth the effort.

Currently, an item can be taken out of the store, a lot number added and the item bunged in the auction. If this were put on-line instead, there’d need to be decent photos (inside and out), someone to examine items closely to give an accurate desription, lots is website work, someone able to dig items out of the store to answer inevitable questions, and a risk of some defect being missed that the buyer might well not be happy about. Way better if interested persons get to physically see the set and make their own mind up.

If each item lotted took 15 minutes (accessing an item, photo, description, webpage) then if there are 300 lots that’s around 80 hours (2-man-weeks) extra work. Dealing with just this kind of exercise on my own website I’d say 15 minutes was actually quite ambitious. And I dare say packaging and sorting out couriers would be more than this. Other than the webpages themselves, all this work would have to be carried out where the items are stored i.e. Swindon which naturally limits the number of volunteers that could help.

Quote:
With regards to transport, maybe a service could be set up by BVWS members, separate from the actual organisation.
This does happen from time to time within this forum.

I’d be prepared to offer transport of the odd item back to Brum (and possibly Bristol) if
a)I’m going (I hope to)
b)I don’t fill the car with my stuff.

I must admit I’d like to see a BVWS auction up north but the logistics currently make this unlikely. It is almost inevitable that these auctions end up near the people who run them and where the items are store. In the case of the BVWS that means Swindon, and with the Radiophile I guess that means Wetwood.

As regards any thought of opening the auctions wider than the BVWS membership John’s sentence :-
Quote:
Originally Posted by GJR11L
... the obvious answer is to join the organisation whose facilities you want to use...
... is spot on !


Quote:
...surely it would be more sensible for whoever is responsible within the BVWS to be more selective regarding what does and does not go into store for auctioning at a later date ?
The BVWS are mostly faced with entire collections, many I'm sure are from deceased member's estates. It would be totally wrong to cherry pick a few items and then leave the family to sort the rest out ! Its often a case of "all" or "none".


TTFN,
Jon
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Old 29th Dec 2006, 9:51 pm   #11
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Default Re: ON-Line Auction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke_Nukem View Post
The BVWS are mostly faced with entire collections, many I'm sure are from deceased member's estates. It would be totally wrong to cherry pick a few items and then leave the family to sort the rest out ! Its often a case of "all" or "none".
Whatever the BVWS didn't help to dispose of would probably end up in landfill regardless of the value. The families probably know that the stuff has some value and are happy to have the BVWS take care of it and give them a cheque in the fullness of time. The families would not be interested in trying to find homes for stuff individually though (especially when dealing with the death of a loved one), so would probably just hire a skip and dump it all.

It doesn't really matter if a set sells for a few quid in a physical auction. The BVWS takes 20% commission (plus any other agreed fees for transporting etc), and the vendor gets the rest. But it is unlikely that anyone would pay a few quid for a nothing-special set in an online auction, once the cost of postage, packing materials and other processing fees is added. It could easily add £20 or more to the price.

Relying on volunteers for transport who may happen to be travelling in the right direction fairly soon and whose plans could change, and trying to co-ordinate that, would be totally impractical when dealing with hundreds of individual items.

I think selling in physical auctions is the best approach. We will, for Wootton Bassett auctions, put the auction catalogue and photos of many of the lots on the BVWS website a few days in advance, so you can decide in whether it is worth making the journey. There is a Holiday Inn Express and a TravelInn nearby (just off the motorway) if you need to stay overnight.

Even if you are not currently a member you can join on the day (before the auction starts) and take away a bundle of CD-ROMs and DVDs that are worth more than the cost of a year's membership.

Hopefully this "special auction" in January will help to reduce the amount of stuff in storage, and if it is successful I suspect there may be more in future. They need to be in the Swindon area though, because that's where the sets are. If the BVWS have to transport them some distance then there is a fuel cost, van rental cost and maybe overnight accommodation that has to be deducted from the payment the vendor receives.
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Old 29th Dec 2006, 11:45 pm   #12
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Default Re: ON-Line Auction?

Hi Everyone,

Just to reply to a few points made above,

Ed - I'm affraid there will be no online BVWS auction, simply because of the logistics and as stated we want the items to go on the day.

Commission bids (from BVWS members) can be made for any items. We do this already with success, but the items must then be paid for and picked up in a reasonable time, or can sometimes be taken to another meeting at a later date (by prior arrangement).

The radios/equipment have not "done the rounds" the stuff in the January Auction has not been seen by anyone other than those who collected it. In general everything in each auction sells as the reserves are sensible (advice is given by us to the vendor) or there is no reserve.

Darren - With more people springing their mortal coil, comes a greater influx of items.
A reduction of radio meetings means that there are fewer outlets hence the store gets filled when we get a big collection of several hundred items.
The BVWS auction service will not cherry pick and leave vast quantities of low value set behind, simply because everything (other than real junk) is saleable and there is always someone looking for a specific radio or spares.

Paul has cleared up a lot of the points with very good answers, but just to re-iterate, A full catalogue of the auction items will be available on the BVWS website soon. There will also be pictures of most of the items as well so you can see what will be there.

Sean - The auctions are BVWS members only for good reasons. As stated earlier in this thread anyone wanting to come can just join. They are then covered under the public liability insurance etc. etc. etc.
The BVWS store is a rural location without sufficient facilities to be opened up to large numbers of people, and anyway there is barely room for me to get in let alone several hundred people.

A gripe about the north - Sorry but I am going to say it... The reason that meetings like the Leeds meeting and the Haydock events are no longer, is due to the lack of people attending them. We are not going to drive several hundred radios to a northern location only to find hardly anyone turns up.
I trust that the Manchester event in January will be cram-packed with people...
I'll be there and we are coming up from Swindon.

If people cannot be bothered to travel to the auction then ultimately they loose out as either they miss a bargain or the event just does not happen and everyone looses out. In the same vein we, the un-paid volunteers could "not bother" and then where would we be?

One final note - For BVWS members the Commission is 10% and 20% for non-members.

Lastly I would like to wish everyone a very happy and prosperous New Year.

Mike...
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 1:00 am   #13
Sean Williams
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Default Re: ON-Line Auction?

There we go - From the horses mouth.......

There are bound to be good items to be had - The Radiophile auctions (Clearance sale types) were mainly previously offered items that did not sell, or have not been collected, some of them going back several years!

In this instance the best thing to happen is for the clearance auctions to be held sooner rather than later!

I would echo the comments regarding voluntary staff...... Lots of work for very little return, and a thankless task at the best of times!

I only hope that the BVWS store is a little better organised than the one I have been involved with over the last few months.......

As for travelling to events, well, that can be a problem (I cannot abide the M25 and M4 corridor - so will not attend on this basis) But as Mike mentions, unless the events are attended by people with intentions of buying, it is of no value running them.

How about a spot of Car sharing from the northern quarter? - Lots of that sort of thing goes on at Amateur radio shows - cant vintage radio meets be the same - keeps transport costs down, and allows more people to attend.

One query Mike - you mention PL insurance, and members being covered - Strictly members are not considered as Public in this sense - especially if they are involved in the running of the event - I would have thought that BVWS PL insurance covers all parties that enter an event. (Mine certainly does)

I do agree that the members only policy is sound, but at the same time, if, for instance you had a person interested in the auction, but had no interest in the aims, or policies of the BVWS, is this not cutting the nose off to spite the face?, I am sure the society would benefit from the extra income generated by a more diverse bidding pool!

A public auction would yield more potential customers, and could attract new members to the society as well, added to that the advertising of these events would then assist the society in gaining more exposure

Just thinking out loud........

Ok, time to shoot off - another stricken motorist to rescue.....

Cheers
Sean
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Old 30th Dec 2006, 8:37 pm   #14
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Default Re: ON-Line Auction?

Hi Gents, having attended most of the Leeds "do's", I believe they were well attended as Leeds is more central for a lot of people than south Manchester/ Chesire.
I was led to understand that they we cancelled as the hotel had jacked up the cost to very high levels (killing the goose....).

Ed
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