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Clubs, Groups and Societies For discussions about various clubs, groups and societies relating to our hobbies, such as the BVWS (incl NVCF), BATC, RSGB, APTS, CLPGS, THG, TCC etc. This is NOT an official forum for any of these organisations.

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Old 26th Apr 2012, 10:41 am   #41
Radio_Dave
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

So what would the "private" buyers do with all the surplus valves they've bought, from a job lot, when they only wanted one or two examples? Surely "job lots" of valves would be better in the hands of the dealers who would re-distribute them to radio collectors world wide, rather than a few private individuals, stashing hoards of valves in their loft?

I'm not a BVWS member and I don't understand all their workings, but are the auction lots donated? If not, who would put items into a sale that prevented them making their full, financial, potential?

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Old 26th Apr 2012, 11:38 am   #42
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

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Is there a case for a 'valve bank'? perhaps distributed between members? Does this already exist? I would participate in something like that.
Jeremy, (Pamphonica) has a collection of valves, donated by various people, that he offers to members here, with the proceeds going to the Vintage Wireless Museum.
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Old 26th Apr 2012, 1:09 pm   #43
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

I've been following this thread, and while I can appreciate the dismay at the thought of 'predatory' dealers hoovering up stocks of valves, the point that they have to buy at what is currently below market price (in order to be able to show a profit) is a good one.

Let's also not forget, that dealers who invest in a boxful of valves, are investing in an asset. Which therefore means that they will take care of this asset, and the valves will be available for years to come, on the open market. Whereas, if I buy a boxful of valves myself, for just a couple that I want, the rest is likely to stay hidden away for many years with nobody knowing they exist (until I may get round to downsizing).
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Old 26th Apr 2012, 1:47 pm   #44
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

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I'm not a BVWS member and I don't understand all their workings, but are the auction lots donated? If not, who would put items into a sale that prevented them making their full, financial, potential?
Many of the lots in the auctions are from estate sales... selling the property of deceased collectors (and often BVWS members) on behalf of their relatives. They like the convenience of letting us collect and deal with it all, and receiving a cheque at the end. They generally don't know what they are selling and would probably just end up dumping it all if there wasn't this convenient outlet.

Also sometimes collectors are thinning out their collections, and the priority is primarily the convenience and lack of hassle rather than realising the maximum price. I have used the auctions for this on a few occasions (including the last Wootton Bassett due to a planned move to a smaller flat). Yes I could make more on eBay or on here, but then I'd have to deal with packing and posting, more detailed descriptions and testing etc. There is none of that selling in auction, it's all sold as seen, the buyers take the items away, and I collect the cash at the end of the day.
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Old 26th Apr 2012, 5:04 pm   #45
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

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On the other hand, at a couple of recent WB auctions, two friends and I shared a table to dispose of our surplus. Some of which, I am sure, probably originated at other BVWS auctions. Prices were deliberately low, as the object was to dispose of things, hopefully covering costs, rather than make a profit.
Which, in the context of 'genuine collectors vs. dealers', could put you in an awkward position: "hopefully covering costs rather than make a profit". I am sure that you are not a 'dealer' as such, but suppose you make more than enough to 'cover your costs'? Does this define you as a 'dealer by accident'? Do you assess the 'profit' so made and donate it to a charity or the BVWS? The point I'm trying to make is that there is a point where the the sharp line between a distinct dealer and a honest collector can easily become blurred - even if by accident. And that, with due respect and in my opinion, makes this whole debate somewhat specious.

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Old 26th Apr 2012, 6:35 pm   #46
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Arrow Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

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Originally Posted by greenstar View Post

Is there a case for a 'valve bank'? perhaps distributed between members? Does this already exist? I would participate in something like that.
Talk to Phil, G4SPZ, about that. (Post #37 refers)

Al.
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Old 26th Apr 2012, 6:48 pm   #47
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

Forming an alliance, ring (or cartel) to use its correct term to collectively bid, or not bid at an auction is indeed illegal, it contravenes the auctions act (date escapes me at present).

The members of this Cartel, the Auction organiser, and the Auctioneer can be held responsible for this sort of behaviour.

Not the way forward IMO........
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Old 26th Apr 2012, 7:36 pm   #48
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

It might be useful to look at the situation differently. There are occasions when a box of many items contains one that is special and no one else has noticed it. The high bidder gets this at a bargain price and has been very lucky.

Another situation arises when there are two good items and two people want both. This means anyone wanting only one will have to bid more than its realistic value or lose it. For anyone needing a few of the less spectacular items with no interest in the very valuable ones, the bidding soon gets out of reach. As Alan said earlier, just accept it and enjoy the contest. It is possible that when bidding is between two specialists the winner might be willing to give the 'junk' away.

In a professional auction house these bidding wars can be quite entertaining especially when recognised by a clever auctioneer.
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Old 26th Apr 2012, 9:12 pm   #49
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

Hi,

Iíve been following this thread with interest, and I canít add anymore to thatís already been said, but on a light-hearted note I remember Mike Barker auctioning a marrow from his own greenhouse at a July RWB auction the year before last. Maybe it ended up on eBay and was sold to an international Marrow collector for a vast sum! Mike did say it was an early date code marrow

I feel the BVWS lads do a cracking job with respect of the auctions.

Iíve spent £2 on one of Mikes "someone has to buy this or we donít go home lonely transistor radio bargains" to £200 on a guitar amplifier, so I feel there is something for everyone at BVWS auctions.

Much to my wifeís dismay I still have all the stuff Iíve bought at BVWS auctions.

Terry.
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Old 26th Apr 2012, 9:30 pm   #50
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

Ah Yes ! The Monster Marrow. Who would of believed it at a radio auction.

It was a Triode version too!

I think it raised a fiver for the Vintage Wireless Museum if I remember rightly.

It all goes to show, we do have a bit of fun, and that is what it's all about.

Mike.
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Old 26th Apr 2012, 9:59 pm   #51
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

Exactly!

Cheers Mike.


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Old 26th Apr 2012, 11:12 pm   #52
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

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Originally Posted by Sean Williams View Post
Forming an alliance, ring (or cartel) to use its correct term to collectively bid, or not bid at an auction is indeed illegal, it contravenes the auctions act (date escapes me at present).

The members of this cartel, the auction organiser and the auctioneer can be held responsible for this sort of behaviour.

Not the way forward IMO........
Yes, yes, agreed - but unless I missed something in this long (and interesting) thread, I didn't read anything that either explicitly advocated such a practice nor even hinted at it.

Al.
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Old 27th Apr 2012, 6:29 am   #53
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

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Yes, yes, agreed - but unless I missed something in this long (and interesting) thread, I didn't read anything that either explicitly advocated such a practice nor even hinted at it.
See post #36. Not a serious attempt to set up a ring but certainly hinting at it.
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Old 27th Apr 2012, 6:31 am   #54
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

Ok Al, How about these two snippets?

Quote:
What about forming an alliance with one or more fellow trusted interested parties and bidding as a unit on agreed lots?

I can see many objections but it seems like a reasonable strategy to me. For a start, it might be illegal and could create a predatory in crowd.
Then this.....


Quote:
I suppose we could all club together (throw £20 or so into a kitty). The total amount would give the dealers a run for their money. Mind you, I wouldn't like to experience the fall out when allocating the one and only PX4 in the box and the multitude of EF80s. Perhaps we could then go on to draw lots.
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Old 27th Apr 2012, 9:59 am   #55
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

Hi.
Due to logistics I have never attended any of the "Auctions etc" down south even though I am a member.
It occurs to me we are talking about one fundamental thing "Human Nature". None of us like losing money unless we are super rich and don't care about money. The majority of working class people may have to save up to get to many of these "meetings" and if they see in a lot a particular valve they may need they will make a bid, it could be expensive and there could be valves in the lot that would not be needed, so are we suggesting that person keeps them all? I think not, so the rest will be sold and rightly so.
The other scenario in human nature is greed, and it's something I personally have seen on numerous occasions with collectors, some will buy, borrow, steal or be given items that they have no use for in the least and often will know that Joe Bloggs is in urgent need of that item, some just don't care.
It's something that most likely will never stop and the sad thing about it is that so many of these peoples' hoardings just get dumped when they die.

This whole thread is really about how we as humans treat our fellow man, perhaps if we looked at our actions and how they effect others the whole community would work together far better.

Oh, and Thank You are two excellent words.

Last edited by murphyv310; 27th Apr 2012 at 10:28 am. Reason: One word incorrect spelling oops
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Old 27th Apr 2012, 12:08 pm   #56
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

Thank you Trevor for the "pause for thought".
Rob.
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Old 27th Apr 2012, 12:11 pm   #57
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppppenguin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywave View Post
Yes, yes, agreed - but unless I missed something in this long (and interesting) thread, I didn't read anything that either explicitly advocated such a practice nor even hinted at it.
See post #36. Not a serious attempt to set up a ring but certainly hinting at it.
Post #36 was mine.

Suppose A and B see an auction lot of a thousand widgets. A says to B, that he can only use no more than 500 and will pay a quid each. B says to A he sees things exactly the same way. A bids for the lot up to a thousand quid. They then split them.

It's really no different to bidding as an individual with an expectancy of resale to waiting customers. Neither A nor B would have bid for a thousand for themselves.

The problems are obvious.

Scope for falling out between A and B. Scope for falling out between A and B and others.

The formation of an unpleasant clique.

Arrangements such as this shading into bidding conspiracies, ringing the auction.

Pete.
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Old 27th Apr 2012, 1:22 pm   #58
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Default Re: Valves at BVWS auctions available for "all" members

With the discussions about illegal and immoral activities such as bidding rings and cartels (which would probably get the participants expelled from the BVWS) it is now time to bring the hammer down on this discussion.
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