Many BBC Local Radio MW Transmitters Closing January 2018

[barrymagrec]

Almost everyone I know listens to radio on a regular basis, none, as far as I know, listen on Medium Wave, I last used it 25 years ago before the advent of a decent FM receiver in my car.

DAB is a bit quality limited for serious listening but excellent for speech and essential for the cricket.

Internet services can be useful and interesting but slightly more fiddly for normal use.

I don't think I will miss the MW services but I can't think the band is much use for anything else.

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

MW/LW broadcast-radio is dying/dead.

Maybe so in Western Europe, but in Eastern Europe, most of Asia and surely Africa this is not the case. And the same can be said for broadcasting Short Wave.

Northern/Western European countries are relatively small. But vast territories like China, Russia, India, cannot be easily and cheaply cabled and populated with microwave repeaters every 50 metres.

[cmjones01]

Originally Posted by ottavio

Maybe so in Western Europe, but in Eastern Europe, most of Asia and surely Africa this is not the case. And the same can be said for broadcasting Short Wave.

Depends how far east you go, but here in Poland, there are effectively no medium wave stations at all, and haven't been for years and years. There is one long-wave service. Everything is on FM. Listening across the medium-wave band at night I hear signals from Romania, mostly. So from the perspective of this part of the world, yes, MW/LW broadcast is dying out.

Chris

[Radio Wrangler]

I suppose one or two medium wave stations might get turned into something operated like those steam railway preservation societies, but the pollution of the band with SMPS noise will still be there, and the costs of electricity and maintenance will make themselves felt more directly than when they fell under a big umbrella like the BBC.

Grimeton might be a good example.

Hilltop sites are under competition from windfarms, like Quartz Hill receiving station in NZ.

Otherwise, it's pantry transmitters.

I can't see the amateur radio gang doing much. The noise floors are too high for use at modest powers in populated areas, and the number of active amateurs is in free-fall. We won't say no to more bands, but I honestly don't think we can populate it.

Times are changing and all you can do is roll with it.

David

[russell_w_b]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

I suppose one or two medium wave stations might get turned into something operated like those steam railway preservation societies...

Grimeton might be a good example.

Trouble is, David, is that there's nothing now in service in the UK that compares with Grimeton's original transmitter and heritage that is still serviceable. It would be we few diehard enthusiasts who would rock up to see a humming grey box made by Eddystone or Marconi. All the lovely grey hammer-finish stuff with Ernest Turner meters and chrome knobs was ripped out yonks ago. Pity the Carnarvon Alexanderson alternator transmitter is no more...

There are the old BD252 Marconi HF transmitters (3 of them) still in service at Woofferton which visitors admire, and one elsewhere that has been completely disconnected from aerial, HV and LV supplies and is unlikely to be put back in use again: the other ten senders alongside it being scrapped.

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

Times are changing and all you can do is roll with it.

Quite. In a stable, relatively peaceful world where freedom of information is unlikely to be compromised by simply 'pulling the plug' on promulgation of information, then priority will be given to simple economics and, perhaps, the acquisition of revenue from selling sites to developers (like Mangotsfield at Bristol).

[music-centre]

Personally I don't see why the BBC spends money on putting their output on Freeview if they want to save money - there is DAB and online if people want Digital.
It doesn't seem a good idea to me to encourage people to use giant TVs to listen to the Radio, I know the power consumption is lower than CRT sets but surely still more than a small modern radio.
I would rather it be spent on keeping the BBC Locals on.
Steve.

[Philips210]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

MW/LW broadcast-radio is dying/dead, along with things like 'Encyclopedia Britannica', phone-boxes, landline-phones, road-atlases, post-offices, rag-and-bone-men, early-closing days, newspapers, milkmen... Nostalgia's fine but it's not something I want to see my taxes going into funding.

I often wonder if we've put too much reliance on the internet/mobile comms etc. I think we should maintain a basic public service be it land line phones or analogue broadcast radio. If all the latest technology fails for some reason, (solar flare for example) then there's little to fall back on, then where will we be then?

Symon

[Radio Wrangler]

Governments have always had plans for emergency communications and conveying their rulings to the masses. Up to now the latter has revolved around redundant links to R4 transmitters, diesel generators on their sites and the expectation that every household will have a battery operated radio. If the MW/LW transmitters go, and few homes have radios anyway, and there are two guys with silly haircuts threatening each other with nukes.... ooo-errr..... and remember to tag them first for identification purposes!

David

[G6Tanuki]

These days, "emergency broadcasts" are more likely to be delivered by SMS [the Japanese have a really good tsunami-warning system based on this] - but I won't describe further because it's not appropriate for this thread.

I think we just have to face facts and accept that for most people this side of 50 MW/LW radio is an irrelevance - and the economics of propping-up such legacy systems when their customers are literally dying-out doesn't make sense.

Idea: If the BBC don't want to continue, offer the infrastructure and spectrum-slots for-free to commercial broadcasters, conditional on them keeping it going for 3 years. I seriously doubt there'd be any takers . .

[mark2collection]

The people in our social circle, late 20's to late 40's listen to music via Amazon's 'Alexa/Echo' devices, tablets/phones/app's or, through their flat-screen Telly's.

In their case, the modern houses they're buying are just too small for regular furniture plus finding a home for a real Hi-Fi, and as for having a wireless set in every room? Even in the car, it's a phone bluetoothed to the infotainment system. My daughter, now 11 watches/listens 'on-demand' and a colleague, his daughters 16 and 19, 'on-demand/catch-up'.

Me, like most of us here it would seem, are one of the lucky few Who stills joys the thrill, sound, smell & feel of a quality instrument. Sad times indeed, it would appear a pantry device will be a requirement in the not too distant future.

[russell_w_b]

Originally Posted by mark2collection

The people in our social circle, late 20's to late 40's listen to music via Amazon's 'Alexa/Echo' devices, tablets/phones/app's or, through their flat-screen Telly's.

Ahh, yes: two-way communications. At least good ol' 'dumb' BBC MF, for all its maintenance costs, interference susceptibility and public service ethos, albeit at restricted bandwidth for modern tastes, will not listen in to what's being said in one's household and report it back to Amazon or whoever to steer advertisements aimed at you.

Geroge Orwell would be laughing his socks off! I'll leave it at that, I think.

[mark2collection]

This is sooo true, clever marketing, tailored advertising ... Would I rather the interference from SMPS's or interference from commercial breaks?

Little wonder, I still repair, use, cherish my sets ...

[Nymrod121]

I think turretslug's comments in post #8 are very relevant.

I picked up on the following part of the BBC's statement:

"The savings from these closures will allow the BBC to continue to modernise its infrastructure"

At the risk of descending into semantics, my perception is that this statement is inaccurate as the BBC's *media distribution* infrastructure is already in place.

Excluding internet servers, the BBC no longer has its own conventional and *broadcast-specific* infrastructure insofar as all transmitter sites and associated Broadcast Plant were sold off in the mid-'90s. Indeed, there are those who consider the term 'British Broadcasting Corporation' is no longer valid because the BBC doesn't actually 'broadcast' in its own right any more. Referring back to the original definition of the term 'broadcasting', one could think of present-day arrangements as bags of in-house 'grain' (BBC media) being distributed in bulk to third parties (Arqiva, BSkyB) who then scatter it on the Corporation's behalf. It's a sort of 'digital to analogy conversion' if you like ... and full acknowledgement to John Robinson of Designs Department for coming up with *that* one back in the early '80s.

It's a sign of changing times - a.k.a. commercially-focussed expediency - that the Corporation is constantly seeking to minimise Operating Expenditure in order to demonstrate value for money drawn via the licence fee (*not* taxes - even External Services are nowadays funded by the licence fee; previously this was done via a 'Grant in Aid' from HM Treasury via the Foreign Office, which was indeed taxation-funded).

The costs of operating and maintaining a legacy network such as Medium-Frequency A.M. sites are passed back to the Corporation within the overall charges payable under the terms of the relevant agreement (let's call it a TTC - 'Total Transmission Contract'). Power and maintenance costs will have risen over the years and in terms of MF/AM and VHF/FM, I daresay Arqiva and the Corporation will be only too pleased to reduce overall operating costs (as well as significant Capital Expenditure implied by the Replacement of Worn-Out Plant).

Ofcom will also be keen to recover radio spectrum wherever it can in order to increase revenue to the Treasury through bandwidth auctions and re-purposing of channels for more "media-efficient" uses. We continue to see evidence of this with the shrinking number of channels allocated to television within the UHF terrestrial broadcast band.

The BBC's contribution to public-sector broadcasting can only be maintained if it continues to demonstrate to HMG its commitment to achieving best value for licence-fee. In my opinion, the reduction in BBC Local Radio MF/AM capability is just the tip of an iceberg whose submerged mass includes the eventual withdrawal of high-power MF/AM and VHF/FM transmissions.

Best wishes
Guy

[Skywave]

Originally Posted by AC/HL

Everything is changing at a faster and faster pace and the name of the game is now keeping up with trends, rather than setting them.

Alas, it always was so.

Al.

[stevehertz]

The closure of each and every AM station is a sad loss when you consider how things were just a couple of decades ago. You could enjoy interesting stations loud and clear on MW 'from end to end' on the scale of a vintage set. Sadly, now it's getting increasingly difficult to resolve good, clear, transmissions with the amount of digital interference going on. MW really is spoilt these days if only by your own chargers and pieces of electronic equipment radiating digital hash across the band. A decent battery set like a Hacker, Tandberg, Grundig or a Roberts R707 away from houses in the countryside or on the coast is about as good as it gets!

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by stevehertz

The closure of each and every AM station is a sad loss when you consider how things were just a couple of decades ago. You could enjoy interesting stations loud and clear on MW 'from end to end' on the scale of a vintage set.

Must admit, I largely gave up on MW broadcast listening when "Laser 558" went off-air;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_558

[dglcomp]

I suppose I'm the wired one being that I am late 20's and still use dedicated audio devices for my listening pleasure.

I use an actual clock radio for my alarm (set to 4 extra) and have just acquired a small Panasonic all in one CD/DAB/FM unit for playing my CD collection in the bedroom and downstairs I have a Technics midi system (SA-X900L) with technics phonograph and Sony CD player for downstairs.

I also don't do downloads really and acquire most of my music on CD's, although for on the go listening most of my CD's end up on my phone as WMA Pro lossless.

Plus by not having any of these "smart" speakers I am not being listened to constantly.

[Philips210]

Hi

re post #35, stevehertz, couldn't agree more. The digital technology and SMPS has helped to kill off AM radio, a sad state of affairs indeed. Very nice pic BTW reflecting back to happier times.

Regards
Symon

Maybe the RSGB could start lobbying to have a QRP (say max 1w) segment on the frequencies left over by the Beeb!

[russell_w_b]

I think for all the good work the RSGB do with regards to EMC and rogue equipment, they are ultimately weeing into the wind. It's enough for them to fight for the little bits of amateur spectrum that bring pleasure to many without then having to try to turn the tide of technology backwards.

When all's said and done, MF and LF broadcasting will be seen as an irrelevance, the loss of which is more than compensated for the general public by the ubiquity of SMPSUs in all their guises and the applicatons they power, for which everyone has now accepted and takes for granted.

Can you imagine the fuss if it was decided to swap out everyone's laptop PSU for a bulky linear one? Or to do away with broadband 'because it interferes with one's listening on long-wave'?

That BMW have deliberately cut LW from their car radios because the interference generated by the myriad devices in their cars interferes so badly with reception doesn't instil confidence in the future of LF/MF as a broadcast entertainment propagation medium.