Can anyone identify this vintage radio? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

radiozero · 7th Mar 2008, 9:04 pm

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richard...DIO/index.html

I think Cossor W1 is the detector valve and the Neutron (ID no. ??) valve the LF valve.

No makers name. Well, there is stamp on the back panel that slides away, but not easily readable and I just thought it might be the wood manufacturers stamp.

Anyone seen this set before and know the make? Thanks. Rich

PJL · 7th Mar 2008, 10:29 pm

Hi radiozero, thats a very impressive first post - welcome to the forum.

I am afraid I can't offer any help - just admiration! From the little I know it is from around 1925/6 ish?...Peter

radiozero · 8th Mar 2008, 5:48 pm

Hi. I and a friend went out one day to have a walk and called in at a second hand shop dealing in furniture. I spotted the radio but at first wondered if it was a piece of test equipment. I quickly realises it was a vintage radio. The shop owner said he had some more bits and brought out the valves and coils. I paid £25 for the radio and £10 for 5 valves and the coils. Rich.

Ed_Dinning · 8th Mar 2008, 8:29 pm

Hi Rich, it look slike the sets that were advertised in Wireless World and similar publications of the mid 20's, sometimes as kits. I haven't got access to my copies at present but Electradix? springs to mind. It should be possible to get it going and receive a good few stations. It would be better to initially operate it on the later dull emitter valves rather then the fragile ones you have there.

Happy listening,

Ed

radiozero · 9th Mar 2008, 3:42 pm

Hi. I'm trying to positively identify one of the valves I was sold. I think the NEUTRON valve is an LP2. But I cannot find anything on the NEUTRON company or on this valve.

PJL · 9th Mar 2008, 9:03 pm

Neutron limited crystal sets from 1923 with BBC logo suggest they were an original member.

You did very very well there - just the sort of thing I am on the lookout for. As Ed suggests, to get it going use mullard PM series 2V valves which are cheap and relaible.

mickjjo · 9th Mar 2008, 9:27 pm

Hi, in the book by Keith R. Thrower, "History of the British Radio Valve to 1940", the only entry for the "Neutron" valve brand is,
"Neutron Ltd, Sentinel House, Southampton Row, London, WC2" , "Year of first valves 1925, Ceased manufacture in 1927" . No mention of the LP2, but "Neutron" types listed are, H210, H406HF, HF2, L220LF, L406LF, P430, P525, P525A, P525B.

Regards, Mick.

Station X · 9th Mar 2008, 9:29 pm

See here:-

http://www.r-type.org/exb/exb04105.htm

radiozero · 10th Mar 2008, 12:11 am

A few points: The Neutron carton effectively is advertising four valves on each of the sides of the box.: Proceeding text for all four is on each side is, "This Carton contains a Masterpiece". One side says: "POWER 2v 4v 6v Price 10'6d," another says: "SCREENED GRID 2 VOLT Price 15'6d", another says "H.F. R.C. L.F. (GEN PUR) 2v 4v 6v Price 8'6d", and finally, "SUPER POWER 2v & 4v Price 12'6d". But there is no indication on the box of what valve is in the box. The identication is on the top of the valve, but is difficult to decypher. There was obviously a circle. I can see the words BRITISH. If I'm looking at the right text, it looks like there are two letters before a 2. And they seem to be either LP or LF.

I don't suppose this valves are necessarily associated with the radio. But it does fit the valveholders in the radio.

The other valve is a Cossor W1. That is for detection and low frequency. That possibly would have gone into the "Detector Valve" socket. If the Neutron was used as the second valve that would have gone into the "L.F. Valve" socket. Perhaps that suggests the Neutron valve is LF2, or LP2.

radiozero · 10th Mar 2008, 12:36 am

H210, H406HF, HF2, L220LF, L406LF, P430, P525, P525A, P525B.

Proceeded by H: HF type valve?

Proceeded by L: LF type valve?

Proceeded by P: Power valve?

The first letter on the valve really looks like an "L". Then another letter, then a "2". I would not be surprised if there was an LF2 in addition to the valves mentioned.

radiozero · 10th Mar 2008, 12:33 pm

I muse that for now I can sell off the vintage valves. Because I don't think they have any real connection with the radio. (Pun not intended). I may end up selling the radio, but it's not my intention at the moment.

So, what valves should I try to purchase that would be in keeping with the age of the radio? PM2HML or is that too late - what? Thanks.

PJL · 10th Mar 2008, 8:42 pm

The valves you have are the same period as the kit. However, the filament were run hot and were short lived so if you attempt to use them they are VERY likely to fail.

The slightly later 'dull emitter' types are pretty robust, the Mullard PM series or cossor types being the most common. I have probably 20-30 and have 'tested' perhaps half in sets and have had zero failures so far.

If you are not familiar with these early sets, they used 3 seperate batteries. An HT battery which had multiple 'taps', a lead acid accumulator for the filaments, a grid bias battery with multiple 'taps'. The valve datasheet would provide the recommended HT and grid bias settings and it was simply a case of plugging the lead into the appropriate tap in the battery.

The rheostats on your radio are for the bright emitter valve types that you have. They are wired in series with the filaments to adjust the voltage until the valve glowed nicely as manufacturing tolerances meant you could not use an exact voltage.

This problem dissapeared with dull emitter valves which work happily off a lead acid battery cell. Later kit radios did not have rheostats...Peter - I stand to be corrected of course!

You can fairly easily make up some batteries, a string of PP9's for the HHT, a multiple AAA carrier for the grid battery and ideally a lead acid battery for the 2V filament of the dull emitter valves although a couple of D cells and a diode/resistance would do. You'll also need some high impedance headphones/speaker (typically 2-4K) or a small output transformer and speaker.

Firstly you'll need to sketch out the circuit...Peter

radiozero · 10th Mar 2008, 10:18 pm

I don't think I'd be committing "crime" if I sold the valves I have. Although as you say they tend to be the ones that would have been with the set at the time it was purchased. I think I'd go with later Mullards throughout. What's that then? PM1HF and PM2? I'm not sure what the right combination would be. Rich

radiozero · 10th Mar 2008, 10:22 pm

Oh, yea. First trace out the circuit. Maybe that helps.

7th Mar 2008, 9:04 pm	#1
radiozero Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 444	Can anyone identify this vintage radio? http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richard...DIO/index.html I think Cossor W1 is the detector valve and the Neutron (ID no. ??) valve the LF valve. No makers name. Well, there is stamp on the back panel that slides away, but not easily readable and I just thought it might be the wood manufacturers stamp. Anyone seen this set before and know the make? Thanks. Rich

7th Mar 2008, 10:29 pm	#2
PJL Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 5,997	Re: Can anyone identify this vintage radio? Hi radiozero, thats a very impressive first post - welcome to the forum. I am afraid I can't offer any help - just admiration! From the little I know it is from around 1925/6 ish?...Peter

8th Mar 2008, 5:48 pm	#3
radiozero Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 444	Re: Can anyone identify this vintage radio? Hi. I and a friend went out one day to have a walk and called in at a second hand shop dealing in furniture. I spotted the radio but at first wondered if it was a piece of test equipment. I quickly realises it was a vintage radio. The shop owner said he had some more bits and brought out the valves and coils. I paid £25 for the radio and £10 for 5 valves and the coils. Rich.

8th Mar 2008, 8:29 pm	#4
Ed_Dinning Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK. Posts: 8,194	Re: Can anyone identify this vintage radio? Hi Rich, it look slike the sets that were advertised in Wireless World and similar publications of the mid 20's, sometimes as kits. I haven't got access to my copies at present but Electradix? springs to mind. It should be possible to get it going and receive a good few stations. It would be better to initially operate it on the later dull emitter valves rather then the fragile ones you have there. Happy listening, Ed

9th Mar 2008, 3:42 pm	#5
radiozero Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 444	Re: Can anyone identify this vintage radio? Hi. I'm trying to positively identify one of the valves I was sold. I think the NEUTRON valve is an LP2. But I cannot find anything on the NEUTRON company or on this valve.

9th Mar 2008, 9:03 pm	#6
PJL Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 5,997	Re: Can anyone identify this vintage radio? Neutron limited crystal sets from 1923 with BBC logo suggest they were an original member. You did very very well there - just the sort of thing I am on the lookout for. As Ed suggests, to get it going use mullard PM series 2V valves which are cheap and relaible.

9th Mar 2008, 9:27 pm	#7
mickjjo Rest in Peace Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Dartford, Kent, UK. Posts: 1,661	Re: Can anyone identify this vintage radio? Hi, in the book by Keith R. Thrower, "History of the British Radio Valve to 1940", the only entry for the "Neutron" valve brand is, "Neutron Ltd, Sentinel House, Southampton Row, London, WC2" , "Year of first valves 1925, Ceased manufacture in 1927" . No mention of the LP2, but "Neutron" types listed are, H210, H406HF, HF2, L220LF, L406LF, P430, P525, P525A, P525B. Regards, Mick.

9th Mar 2008, 9:29 pm	#8
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Can anyone identify this vintage radio? See here:- http://www.r-type.org/exb/exb04105.htm __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

10th Mar 2008, 12:11 am	#9
radiozero Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 444	Re: Can anyone identify this vintage radio? A few points: The Neutron carton effectively is advertising four valves on each of the sides of the box.: Proceeding text for all four is on each side is, "This Carton contains a Masterpiece". One side says: "POWER 2v 4v 6v Price 10'6d," another says: "SCREENED GRID 2 VOLT Price 15'6d", another says "H.F. R.C. L.F. (GEN PUR) 2v 4v 6v Price 8'6d", and finally, "SUPER POWER 2v & 4v Price 12'6d". But there is no indication on the box of what valve is in the box. The identication is on the top of the valve, but is difficult to decypher. There was obviously a circle. I can see the words BRITISH. If I'm looking at the right text, it looks like there are two letters before a 2. And they seem to be either LP or LF. I don't suppose this valves are necessarily associated with the radio. But it does fit the valveholders in the radio. The other valve is a Cossor W1. That is for detection and low frequency. That possibly would have gone into the "Detector Valve" socket. If the Neutron was used as the second valve that would have gone into the "L.F. Valve" socket. Perhaps that suggests the Neutron valve is LF2, or LP2.

10th Mar 2008, 12:36 am	#10
radiozero Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 444	Re: Can anyone identify this vintage radio? H210, H406HF, HF2, L220LF, L406LF, P430, P525, P525A, P525B. Proceeded by H: HF type valve? Proceeded by L: LF type valve? Proceeded by P: Power valve? The first letter on the valve really looks like an "L". Then another letter, then a "2". I would not be surprised if there was an LF2 in addition to the valves mentioned.

10th Mar 2008, 12:33 pm	#11
radiozero Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 444	Re: Can anyone identify this vintage radio? I muse that for now I can sell off the vintage valves. Because I don't think they have any real connection with the radio. (Pun not intended). I may end up selling the radio, but it's not my intention at the moment. So, what valves should I try to purchase that would be in keeping with the age of the radio? PM2HML or is that too late - what? Thanks.

10th Mar 2008, 8:42 pm	#12
PJL Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 5,997	Re: Can anyone identify this vintage radio? The valves you have are the same period as the kit. However, the filament were run hot and were short lived so if you attempt to use them they are VERY likely to fail. The slightly later 'dull emitter' types are pretty robust, the Mullard PM series or cossor types being the most common. I have probably 20-30 and have 'tested' perhaps half in sets and have had zero failures so far. If you are not familiar with these early sets, they used 3 seperate batteries. An HT battery which had multiple 'taps', a lead acid accumulator for the filaments, a grid bias battery with multiple 'taps'. The valve datasheet would provide the recommended HT and grid bias settings and it was simply a case of plugging the lead into the appropriate tap in the battery. The rheostats on your radio are for the bright emitter valve types that you have. They are wired in series with the filaments to adjust the voltage until the valve glowed nicely as manufacturing tolerances meant you could not use an exact voltage. This problem dissapeared with dull emitter valves which work happily off a lead acid battery cell. Later kit radios did not have rheostats...Peter - I stand to be corrected of course! You can fairly easily make up some batteries, a string of PP9's for the HHT, a multiple AAA carrier for the grid battery and ideally a lead acid battery for the 2V filament of the dull emitter valves although a couple of D cells and a diode/resistance would do. You'll also need some high impedance headphones/speaker (typically 2-4K) or a small output transformer and speaker. Firstly you'll need to sketch out the circuit...Peter Last edited by PJL; 10th Mar 2008 at 8:51 pm.

10th Mar 2008, 10:18 pm	#13
radiozero Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 444	Re: Can anyone identify this vintage radio? I don't think I'd be committing "crime" if I sold the valves I have. Although as you say they tend to be the ones that would have been with the set at the time it was purchased. I think I'd go with later Mullards throughout. What's that then? PM1HF and PM2? I'm not sure what the right combination would be. Rich

10th Mar 2008, 10:22 pm	#14
radiozero Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 444	Re: Can anyone identify this vintage radio? Oh, yea. First trace out the circuit. Maybe that helps.