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Old 14th Jun 2019, 3:21 pm   #21
ms660
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

I might be wrong but it looks like the neutral out and Earth are connected together via the chassis? ()?

Lawrence.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 4:12 pm   #22
jackruby52
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

I think I have a lot to do then!! You say put the wiring back to how Dansette intended, do you happen to have any photo's of how everything should be? You say capacitors are the wrong ones ,can you tell me what are the right ones.
I can't wait to start this project and any more advice would be appreciated. This player is for me so I want it right. If I need to replace parts ( volume switch etc) where could I get replacements or near to originals as possible to make it safe and the dogs doodars would be appreciated.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 4:17 pm   #23
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

If you're going to put the wiring back to how it originally was, then just follow the circuit diagram. You won't need the capacitors.

Putting the wiring back to how is was is how I would do things. Others may have different opinions.

If you can't read a circuit diagram then we'll need more pictures, showing all the wiring, before we can advise you.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 4:46 pm   #24
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

The short length of bare wire connected to the switch's neutral output might be connected to the pot's body? There seems to be a short length fitted to this one as well so far as I can make out:

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...1&d=1491722549

EDIT: It also has at least two isolating capacitors as well, and also what appears to be a mains Earth connection to the chassis via the center tag of the tag strip. I wonder if that bare neutral out wire (the longer one) is connected to the tone pot's body and that part of the body is isolated from the chassis?

Lawrence.

Last edited by ms660; 14th Jun 2019 at 5:07 pm.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 4:54 pm   #25
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

The tone arm weight is adjusted by changing the spring tension (inside the underside) on the arm by locating the spring over the metal retaining plate until it reads c.5-6 grams.
As far as the wiring of the high risk, "live-chassis" unit is concerned, do not take any risks! This kind of circuit is far more dangerous to work on than on some other type of record players that use a mains-isolated chassis. If you are not sure, do get some hands-on advice locally in Lincs.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 5:09 pm   #26
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

That. 3 core mains lead looks original, old colour wires and period P clip. Difficult to see the solder tag in the picture , looks like it goes to centre tag of tag strip, the other mains lead conductors should not be connected to it, the earth wire should be connected to the autochanger metal and nowhere else. Is this a better, or worse arrangement than no earth ? Swings/roundabouts.. p.s. possibly worse if you are actually working on it !

Last edited by electrogram; 14th Jun 2019 at 5:13 pm. Reason: Missed a bit
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 5:15 pm   #27
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

The isolating capacitors in the Dansette Viva link I posted look original types to me (red/orange tubular ceramics) I suspect that those were the type originally fitted to the OP's record player.

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Old 14th Jun 2019, 5:53 pm   #28
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

The circuit diagram for the Dansette Viva shows a two core mains flex and no isolation capacitors. That's not to say the diagram is accurate though.

EDIT. The player may be wired like a Dansette Transit (mains only version) which has 1800pF isolation caps and a three core mains lead with the earth wire connected to the deck only.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 6:29 pm   #29
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

Agreed it does look a bit of a mess, if you're not experienced enough you will need to employ someone who knows these vintage amps to work on it and make it safe
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 6:34 pm   #30
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackruby52 View Post
You say capacitors are the wrong ones ,can you tell me what are the right ones.
It looks like they're standard 630 volt DC poly capacitors, when they should really be special 'Y' rated types, the idea being that if they ever failed, then they would fail open circuit rather than the normal short circuit, which would compromise safety isolation if it happened. The truth is that those capacitors will probably be perfectly safe and are probably better than anything that was originally there. I don't think there's ever been any reported cases of those capacitors failing short circuit and causing an electric shock, but I'm duty bound to tell you what type should really be used, it's up to you if it's for your own use.

I have to say that the whole lot needs tidying up and the soldering needs redoing - it looks like someone's heated a poker in a coal fire and used it for the soldering iron to do that job. Where did you get that record player from? Guessing that it was them that did the work, let's hope it's nobody we know!
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 6:44 pm   #31
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

Also if the cartridge wasn't supposed to be isolated they wouldn't need that tag strip, it's fixing screw looks like the manufacturers original both in the Op's photo and the one in the link.

Replace the two yellow capacitors with Y Class types, tidy up a bit and make sure there's no connection path between the neutral out from the switch and the earth connection.

EDIT: Post crossed.

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Old 14th Jun 2019, 9:55 pm   #32
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

Ok gentlemen my brain is in a spin what to do. I cannot read a diagrams so completely going back to basics would be hard although I can follow photographs. I purchased this from a car boot sale and was hoping for a fairly quick but safe fix. I have sent more photo's for more advice so I don't electracute myself.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 10:51 pm   #33
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

The metal cases of the pots are connected to the switched neutral wire at the mains switch which is fair enough.

I would have expected the earth (green) wire of the mains flex to go directly to the metal part of the deck (not the amplifier), but it goes via the three way tag strip screwed to the wooden panel.

There appear to be two cables connected to the three way tag strip, one white and one creamy grey. One goes to the five way tag strip under the deck. Where does the other one go to?

Where does the green wire connected to the switched live (brown) of the mains switch go to?
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 10:52 pm   #34
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

From a safety point of view, the photo's in Post#32...The wiring underneath the deck is ok (1st photo) and needs nothing doing to it.

The circuit in the other photo's is ok, it just needs those two yellow capacitors replacing with Y Class types, use the same value, eg: 2.2nF (0.0022uF) fit them tidy like.

Redo the connection of the brown wire where it's joined to the switch tag so there is less chance of it shorting out to the long bare wire that runs underneath it.

Push the other bare wire as far away as possible (without straining anything to much) from the switch tag that has the neutral wire (the black one) of the mains cable connected to it.

Make sure the mains plug is wired up correctly and make sure that the fuse fitted in the plug is rated at no more than 3 Amps.

Lawrence.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 8:40 am   #35
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

Given my experience of working on many of these Vivas over the last 45 years, they were all made with a 2 core mains leads and had no cartridge isolating caps at all. The Viva circuit diagram confirms this.

These use the same amp as the then contempraneous Dansette "Popular". Both were the lowest price in their respective single-play and autochanger ranges.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 8:55 am   #36
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

I would have agreed with you Edward, but for the images in this thread which show isolating capacitors. This makes me think the Dansette Transit circuit is applicable here:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=135556
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 12:11 pm   #37
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

Good morning to all. Firstly to answer Station X questions, The mains green earth wire goes to the tab above the switch (not connected) then a green wire attaches to that tab goes up to the 5 tab below the drum and screwed into it which I think earths it. (pic1&2).
Then the cream wire goes to the fuse and fuse board along with the other green wire (remaining pics). Hope this answers your questions.

ms660 I thank you for your advice and have ordered the capacitors to replace these. Just a thought,but do you suggest I replace or cover the existing bare wires?
Thanks everyone for your comments and I am in the process of applying your comments into actions.

It looks to me that because there was no long mains earth cable the person who earthed it pieced it togeter via a solder tab.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 12:26 pm   #38
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackruby52 View Post
Just a thought,but do you suggest I replace or cover the existing bare wires?
Looking at the latest photo's, the position of the bare wires now looks ok, they will be ok so long as nothing shorts out to them.

Lawrence.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 3:21 pm   #39
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Thanks for that Lawrence, have a good day and will show you when finished.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 4:51 pm   #40
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Default Re: Dansette Viva

Take care! The ORIGINAL design was completely safe for decades with a 2 core mains lead. Adding earth wires can lead to dangerous conditions.
That wiring is an absolute disgrace but is not the first by any means.
I just hope that someone lacking awareness of AC/DC procedure or in fact any electrical experience does not get hurt when playing about with these simple record players. It could lead to draconian laws demanding the crushing of all old electrical equipment. Go easy. John.
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