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Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details. |
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13th Jul 2022, 3:45 pm | #1 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 5,997
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Dilectron movement
Anyone got one of these to work? I picked up a metamec mantle clock with one but it will need servicing and looks very fragile.
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13th Jul 2022, 3:47 pm | #2 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 17,864
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Re: Dilectron movement
Info here:
http://www.mridout.force9.co.uk/ecw/dilectron.htm But I'm afraid I'd never even heard of them until just now. Good luck. |
13th Jul 2022, 4:13 pm | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 5,997
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Re: Dilectron movement
I bought it from a charity shop mainly because of the odd looking movement, it is a fake onyx and brass mid-century style. Old leaky germanium transistors are probably going to be an issue, one is a 2SB54.
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13th Jul 2022, 4:37 pm | #4 |
Heptode
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Isle of Wight, UK.
Posts: 561
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Re: Dilectron movement
Hi,
All I can say is good luck! The concept is great, a free running balance to provide the time constant and this pulse electronically keeping a free running synchronous motor in sync. As a bit of collector of 60s and 70s battery clocks I have a following for Metamec, and have tinkered with many over the years and have got most running, but it’s keeping them running which seems difficult. The motor can run sweetly for weeks and then just stop for no apparent reason. I even found a site with service data (in German) many years ago and set it up with that, still the same outcome. I think they were trouble from the start as many Metamec clocks had them replaced with a standard Junghans electronic balance movement, whether this was a ‘warranty’ repair we’ll never know. Enjoy the concept though, it could have been excellent. |
13th Jul 2022, 5:59 pm | #5 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 5,997
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Re: Dilectron movement
The free running balance that uses the 2SB54 is running reliably but using a scope there is nothing on the base or collector of the driver which is unmarked but presumably a PNP Germanium. The motor coil is intact but there are a few diodes involved so I need to work out the circuit. The 'motor' looks a bit pathetic so a spec of dust would probably stop it but I will persevere.
Rob, I am having trouble taking the minute hand off, is it simply a push fit? |
13th Jul 2022, 6:50 pm | #6 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 17,864
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Re: Dilectron movement
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13th Jul 2022, 6:50 pm | #7 |
Heptode
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Isle of Wight, UK.
Posts: 561
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Re: Dilectron movement
Just had a look and the minute hand is held in place by a nut.
Yes, clean and degrease all pivots, bushes and jewels, then apply light oil to them. Try not to move the slideable ‘Mu’ brake alongside the motor rotor as this controls the motors free running speed. As said, it is a great concept and quite good to see when operating. I would certainly have bought it if seen in a charity shop Enjoy you tinkering. |
14th Jul 2022, 2:41 pm | #8 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 5,997
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Re: Dilectron movement
Thanks Rob, I worked out the movement comes away from the face and then was able to hold the wheel tightly to remove the nut.
Did you dismantle the escapement and rotor arm to clean? |
14th Jul 2022, 3:11 pm | #9 |
Heptode
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Isle of Wight, UK.
Posts: 561
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Re: Dilectron movement
Yes, I dismantled it all, take care with the motor and balance
pivots as they are fine and easily bent or broken. |
15th Jul 2022, 9:44 am | #10 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK.
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Re: Dilectron movement
Thanks again Rob. I had not realised the escapement and synchronous motor are both kick started by returning the hand set knob and both are now running so I can go ahead and strip, clean and oil. As you suggested, I am enjoying tinkering with this crazy movement...
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17th Jul 2022, 1:55 pm | #11 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 5,997
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Re: Dilectron movement
Rob, I am now cleaning the movement and wondered what the german instructions say about recommended end play. I am counting turns but would like to setup properly. Very impressed that it has 4 jewels, more like a watch than an electric clock.
So we have a free running electronic escapement and a free running electronic synchronous motor that is phase locked to the escapement using a shared winding on the motor. Must have taken a few steins to come up with that idea... |
17th Jul 2022, 6:56 pm | #12 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK.
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Re: Dilectron movement
Prior to cleaning it would stop if not sitting upright probably due to wear on the end of the armature pivot, but now working well. I carefully adjusted the pivots to give just a little freedom. Having a look on ebay it seems there are very few with this movement and even those with the correct cutout mostly have different movements.
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17th Jul 2022, 8:04 pm | #13 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK.
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Re: Dilectron movement
Job done so here are some pics...
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18th Jul 2022, 4:49 pm | #14 |
Heptode
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Isle of Wight, UK.
Posts: 561
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Re: Dilectron movement
Lovely job and a nice model too, glad all went well, what was wrong in the end, just a service or component failure?
Rob |
18th Jul 2022, 8:12 pm | #15 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK.
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Re: Dilectron movement
Battery leak was the main issue, then user error in not understanding how to start it properly, and it needed a clean and oil. Most of the original finish on the brass had fallen off and was discoloured so it has had a clean and lacquer. Good to see a glass crystal in what would have been a modest clock.
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18th Jul 2022, 8:24 pm | #16 |
Heptode
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks. UK.
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Re: Dilectron movement
This reminds me - I've got a Metamec clock with the Dilectron movement that doesn't run. I'd like to get it going again.
Last time I tried to start it, the balance wheel spins a few times, slowing down each time then stops altogether after a couple of seconds. The synchronous motor doesn't seem to run at all. Rather disappointing. It's such a weird and wacky movement that I'd love to see it working. I have a collection of electric and battery-driven clocks. What makes them interesting is the many different ways their movements work. A lot of them are shown on Martin Ridout's website as mentioned in post #2. From tuning fork to magnetic pendulum / balance wheel, motor / solenoid rewind or synchronous electric, there's a huge range, each with sophisticated engineering behind it. But by the early 1980s, just about all of these had been swept away by the mass-produced quartz clock. Consequently no-one bothered to repair old electromechanical clocks commercially. It was more cost-effective to throw away the old movement and replace it with a quartz one. I'm quite pleased to see someone trying to repair a piece of largely forgotten technology. |
18th Jul 2022, 8:44 pm | #17 | |
Heptode
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Isle of Wight, UK.
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Re: Dilectron movement
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18th Jul 2022, 8:45 pm | #18 | |
Heptode
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Isle of Wight, UK.
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Re: Dilectron movement
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18th Jul 2022, 10:23 pm | #19 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK.
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Re: Dilectron movement
Quote:
Cleaning was done by stripping it down and using IPA helped by cocktail sticks on the jewels and pivot holes and you need a magnifying glass to check progress. I sparingly applied clock oil I already had. More difficult than a Sectric due to delicate smaller parts but easy enough... |
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22nd Jul 2022, 10:34 am | #20 | |
Pentode
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Harrow, Middlesex, UK.
Posts: 232
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Re: Dilectron movement
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