Electrical Waste, signs of change perhaps?

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by Viewmaster

I've just bought a twin toaster from Wilko for £6 !!
Has a time adjustment too and illuminated off switch.

Let us rejoice and celebrate the benefits of modern manufacturing technology, commerce and global trade!

I remember the days when a PC keyboard cost £100; now you can get a perfectly serviceable one from Tesco for £8, as I found out when I dropped my old one taking it out of the car and a few of the keycaps flew off. Same goes for computer mice: in the past we used to dismantle them and clean the fluff out of the optical choppers, with variable results. Now we buy a new one for a fiver and are happy.

People who fret about 'running out of resources' should read about the "Simon-Ehrlich Wager" - https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...l-ehrlich-bet/

[Skywave]

Numatic vacuum cleaners: here's a little anecdote that members might find amusing.

We had been using a 'Henry' for years before we moved from Evesham, Worcs. At one time, it needed new brushes. A quick look around the Internet revealed that they were available from Numatic, located in a town called Chard in Somerset: never heard of that place until then. However, Life sometimes throws you a curved ball: we 'discovered' Chard a few years ago and moved here - and I can clearly see the Numatic factory from an upstairs window - just the other side of the A30!

Soon after that re-location, we bought a second 'Henry'. (They're rather heavy, and in this house, from ground floor to top floor, are a few staircases with 37 steps in total: so one Henry upstairs; one downstairs). We also bought a Numatic carpet cleaner. (That's even heavier!) One day, just out of interest, I contacted Numatic to ask them if I could buy spare parts from their factory.
"Sorry, no" was the reply. "Place your order and we'll ship the part to our nearest accredited outlet: Yeovil, in your case."
That left me thinking (thinking, not speaking) something like "But that's **** ridiculous! I could arrive at your door in five minutes: Yeovil is 13 miles away!"
However, I have recently discovered that a little common sense has prevailed at Numatic, Chard: they now have a 'customer counter' (actually, it's a desk in an office) for spare parts.
Thank goodness for that!

Al.

[Neil Purling]

"All WEEE goes to an Authorised Disposal Centre."
Or, as is the case locally, the nearest roadside ditch if some Herbert doesn't feel up to going as far as the nearest tip.
And then I come along looking to harvest electrolytic capacitors to sort a transistor portable cheaply.
So I 'liberate' the PCB's with various hammers.

It is rather like the crow just up the road eviscerating the rabbit that had an unfortunate meeting with a car.

[Refugee]

It is the same around here.
There are far too many fridges and Dysons in our local laybys.

[mark2collection]

We're doing our bit to buy British.

By this I mean, when the far-eastern item expires, usually just outside of warranty, we look around antique shops, markets & a few boot-sale and even peruse the stands at the NVCF for replacement items or spares. Any goodies left over are offered on-line via the usual channels and sometimes, we get our money back via this route for our initial purchase

Yep, buy old, buy British. Parts are usually obtainable, items are usually repairable & there's knowledge out the (or here) if you get really stuck.

Of course you have to be realistic with you own abilities, what interests you & how you value your time.

Most of the 'quality' tools in the workshop have been replaced by 'Made in England' tools upon expiry, in fairly recent times.

Ok so the radio in the front bedroom doesn't match the curtains or bedding, but it's stylish, survived through the war, various fashions and parts obsolescence. With a bit of luck and care, it'll last a good few years to come.

Mark

[Junk Box Nick]

Originally Posted by Viewmaster

I've just bought a twin toaster from Wilko for £6 !!
Has a time adjustment too and illuminated off switch.

I've got a Wilko toaster.

It only takes small rounds of bread so sliced bread that doesn't fit has to be done in two halves. The inner sides of the bread always come out more 'done' than the outer ones and the timer is very erratic. Set it so that the first rounds are nicely/acceptably done and the next time on the same setting the bread can be burned black (inner always more than outer!). Apart from that it is fine.

Good toast can be done on a SuperSer (portable gas heater from the 80's), cheese on toast however requires two (best drunk!) men to hold it horizontal above the cheesed up bread. Our (electric) toaster is a 10 year old Russel Hobbs, no country of manufacture on it so I assume EU. Quite well made with real screws to take it apart, it doesn't do cheese on toast at all.

[TonyDuell]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

I remember the days when a PC keyboard cost £100; now you can get a perfectly serviceable one from Tesco for £8, as I found out when I dropped my old one taking it out of the car and a few of the keycaps flew off. Same goes for computer mice: in the past we used to dismantle them and clean the fluff out of the optical choppers, with variable results. Now we buy a new one for a fiver and are happy.

I have to disagree with you there for several reasons.

In my opinion the cheap PC keyboards feel horrible. Probably OK for short e-mail messages and forum posts but I would not want to type a large document on one.

OK, the modern PC keyboard is cheap. But how long does it last compared to the expensive ones of yore? I actually wonder if the overall cost is any less

But the real problem is that when the modern keyboard fails, OK, I can go to Tesco and get a replacement. That's at least an hour round trip for me on the bus. An hour when I am trying to remember what I wanted to type. An hour when I am frustrated not being able to record my thoughts.

It's like cheap tools with a lifetime guarantee. Yes the company probably honours that. But if I am working on something and the (nut driving) socket breaks I do not want to be held up, trying to remember where I had got to, while I get a replacement. I'll buy good tools (Facom, Stahlwille for socket sets) and not have any problems.

I am still using keyboards here that are 45 years old. Obviously not on a PC. I can't remember if I've had to replace any keyswitches (Yes I have a few spares) or repaired the keyboard encoder (all TTL, I have the circuit diagrams and theory of operation) but I think not. I still like my 30-odd year old IBM Type M on the PC/AT machines, circuit diagram in the TechRef manual, got all sorts of spares in the junk box.

[TonyDuell]

Originally Posted by mark2collection

Most of the 'quality' tools in the workshop have been replaced by 'Made in England' tools upon expiry, in fairly recent times.

Actually, the most recent tools I bought were Swiss (Bergeon watchmaker's screwdrivers). Believe-it-or-not they are repairable. You get 2 spare blades for each screwdriver in the set and I am told you can buy more if you need them. Not cheap, but....

[mark2collection]

Most of my fathers & my grandfathers tools are in regular use. Especially as we have a British classic car.

The difference in weight between those & modern 'quality' high street tools are like night and day!

Facom, Barco (Bahco?) et al are very good quality, I too have a screwdriver set, wasn't cheap, from Facom, must be 20 years old(?)

Trouble is now, manufacturers have passed the problem to us as consumers. Make an item obsolete by lack of spares/repairability or fall out of fashion/updates no longer compatible etc & there's not a lot we can do, except in most cases, buy new.

They don't need trained engineers, service outlets/agents or massive warehouses holding vast quantities of spares. Design it to a price, make an effort for some bits to be recyclable, either way, it costs us, not them.

What we should do is let the manufacturer dispose of the item by returning to them, end of life. I'm sure there's some agreement under the EU which stipulates the original manufacturer IS responsible for disposal.

Mind you, when I'm told 'you cannot repair those', to me the challenge has been set!

Success rates are variable, depending on time/inclination and curiosity!

Mark

[The Philpott]

In the case of failure, even if no spares are available for consumer goods i generally take them apart to a certain extent to see just how good or otherwise the design actually is. If nothing else it decides whether I would buy another one, or not.

Our Bristan basin taps and also Morphy Richards kettle both have mazak type trim or cosmetic components on them, which the hard water destroys very quickly. Not my choice of purchase.

Dave

[Nuvistor]

Originally Posted by mark2collection

They don't need trained engineers, service outlets/agents or massive warehouses holding vast quantities of spares. Design it to a price, make an effort for some bits to be recyclable, either way, it costs us, not them.

Always has cost us the consumer even when they had those facilities, either in the buying price or repair charges. Not that I don’t think items shouldn’t be repairable but that has to be economic.

[avocollector]

We have recyclers in NZ that save stuff going to the tip that is still OK, but a lot of stuff is junked because of either lack or parts or broken plastic parts. I just wonder if the 3D printing might make some of the missing bits easily - perhaps a requirement that the manufacturer place their code in the public arena once they stop making parts so individuals could print off replacement bits - perhaps the local men's sheds could do this for a small fee and even offer simple repair services for fellow pensioners or anyone on the dole.
I must admit I rat out all the screws etc I can from anything bin bound BUT there is a limit to how many I may need/want to store. It seems to me getting the saved stuff into the right hands is also a problem - for example I've an old fluke 8060A (??) with a stuffed LCD. I think it's still working (can see numbers etc faintly sometimes) but the cost of a replacement LCD as quoted by the official repair site, some $60+, has dissuaded me. Probably somewhere someone is sitting on whole pile of these LCD's wondering if they'll ever get rid of them but finding that person even with aids such as this site is difficult.

[emeritus]

I believe that the keys of older computer keyboards operated switches that had crossed silver contacts to ensure reliable operation, and had a design life of over a million presses, which probably accounted for their cost.

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by emeritus

I believe that the keys of older computer keyboards operated switches that had crossed silver contacts to ensure reliable operation, and had a design life of over a million presses, which probably accounted for their cost.

The old IBM 3270 display-terminal keyboards used a 'buckling spring' mechanism to give the snap-action. They were _incredibly_ noisy compared with modern keyboards - something like the payment-processing department of a large utility (with 100 or so operators sitting in front of screens keying-in transactions was rattle.rattle.rattle all day long. The first IBM-PC keyboards were no quieter.

They rarely failed mechanically: usual cause-of-death was tea/coffee/coke being spilled, which mixed with the inevitable accretions of skin flakes, hair, bits of biscuits and cigarette ash to cause tracking on the under-keyboard PCB.

Some of the best keyboards I came across were made by a US company called Ball, for defence applications. Each key was a tiny changeover reed-relay about the size of a TO5 trabsistor, rather than a simple 'make' contact. I gather that these keyboards were chosen for use on space-missions too; it's hard getting a guaranteed 4-hour on-site replacement for a failed keyboard when you're half way to the Moon.
I wouldn't want to know how much they cost, but I'd guess it wasn't short of the price of a smallish new car. Definitely not 'consumer-friendly'!

[lesmw0sec]

I recently bought a miniature (but full spec) keyboard from China for a field application. It was advertised as flexible and certainly is - it arrived folded up in a small envelope - but it works well!

[Refugee]

They also sell electronic pianos that can be rolled up for storage.

[Andrew B]

A quick "heads up", the bearings in Henry and George motors are the same ones that come (came?) in the wheels of those horrid aluminium pop up "stunt" scooters that were all the rage.

[electronicskip]

Originally Posted by lesmw0sec

I recently bought a miniature (but full spec) keyboard from China for a field application. It was advertised as flexible and certainly is - it arrived folded up in a small envelope - but it works well!

The best keyboard I've ever had was on the Texas TI99/4a computer.
Solid action, heavy duty .

[Refugee]

Originally Posted by Andrew B

A quick "heads up", the bearings in Henry and George motors are the same ones that come (came?) in the wheels of those horrid aluminium pop up "stunt" scooters that where all the rage.

Only the "posh" ones have those useful bearings in them.
I am also guilty of picking them up from piles of fly tipped rubbish.