Sonotone 8T cartridge replacement

[John10b]

Just servicing a Bush SRP41 Record Player, the above cartridge is beyond repair, I stripped the cartridge down, I had to cut the body, and although the ceramic elements work fine all other connections were corroded and broken also rubbers u/s, so sadly I have to replace it.
So could you point me towards suitable replacement, please, I’m looking for the cheapest available.
Cheers
John

[Edward Huggins]

There's the cheap chinese, generic stereo type, but these are for microgroove records only. Cheap it is £1.14, but it will need careful mounting, alignment and the channels bridging. The more appropriate BSR SC11M/12M flipover type is much more expensive c. £35.00.

[John10b]

Than you Edward I’ll take a look.
Cheers
John

[ben]

I fitted a Sonotone 3509 to mine. Sounds great but these carts are scarce; they do occasionally come up on ebay.

I think the cheapest flip-over type cart are those chinese types now available - search for '78 lp cartridge' , you can get them for under a tenner but you would have to make your own fixing bracket (such as the one made by a forum member here).

[John10b]

Thank you Ben, I’ve just ordered two red ones for £2.90 including postage !!
Regarding fixing thanks for link, I’ll have to see what bits and pieces I’ve got.
Cheers
John

[John10b]

Further to my last post, I’ve taken some pics of the 8T cartridge strip down, however I’m unable to upload, so if any member would like to see them just send me a pm, perhaps even add to this post.
Cheers
John

[ben]

Maybe you could use the top half of an 8TA as some kind of base for attaching the new cart. Hot melt glue may be useful.

[John10b]

Thanks Ben, yes I was thinking very much the same, the delivery date is end of month so I’ll update when all is done.
I took a look at the price of cartridges of several different suppliers I’m sure they have gone up in price considerably!
Cheers
John

[John10b]

The cheap Red Chinese cartridges arrived, by cheap I mean under £3 for two, including postage!
My first impression was favourable but after playing several records, 45s, LP, mono and stereo, I’ve had a change of opinion. There is some slight distortion and lack of bass, which to me is unacceptable.
Because this is a decent RP i think it deserves a better cartridge which I will obtain.
Cheers
John

[Techman]

What other cartridges have you compared the Chinese cartridges with to determine that it's not actually a fault with the record player, John?

I've never had the fault you describe with these cartridges and find there's little difference between them and the BSR SC12. I haven't bought any just recently, so it could be that there's a different 'batch' on offer now that's not quite so good as those originally offered.

Remember, the record player you have is known for output stage 'runaway' that causes just the fault you describe, particularly as you mention that you were at first happy with the sound, but it then seemed to deteriorate after playing several records.

[Edward Huggins]

Originally Posted by John10b

The cheap Red Chinese cartridges arrived, by cheap I mean under £3 for two, including postage!
My first impression was favourable but after playing several records, 45s, LP, mono and stereo, I’ve had a change of opinion. There is some slight distortion and lack of bass, which to me is unacceptable.

At this low price these cartridges will have come without any form of mounting clip, so how did you mount it into the BSR UA15 tone arm? The fault you describe might also suggest that it's tracking too light. Is the stylus cantilever plastic or metal?

[John10b]

Hi Techman, thanks for your comments.
The original cartridge was the Sonotone 8T, which gave a good clear output on one channel with no noticeable distortion, unfortunately the other channel was faulty, the terminal was so badly corroded that it eventually broke off.
The amp had been running for a number of hours playing different records, without any distortion, so I am confident the amp is ok.
I fitted one of my spare cartridges BSR X5M, as you know this is mono, it gave a very acceptable performance.
I decided to try one of the Red cartridges, perhaps I’m being too fussy and others would find it acceptable and not notice the slight distortion, as I bought two cartridges I’ll try the other one just to see if there is any difference.
As a matter of interest on “get the needle” there is a Red Cartridge, which looks identical to the ones I bought,for £12, I was thinking of giving that a try, any comments?
I could leave the X5M in, as this is a mono RP, but because it has the capability to feed a second amp I would like to fit Stereo cartridge.
Cheers
John

[John10b]

Sorry Edward your post arrived after I sent mine?
I obtained a mounting bracket from “get the needle”
I’ll get back to you with details of cartridge.
I was wondering how do you determine which of the “cheap” Red cartridges to bye, they all look pretty much the same?
Cheers
John

[John10b]

I should have said I changed the tracking weight a few times with no noticeable difference.
Cheers
John

[Techman]

Hi John. It seems a bit of a strange one if you've tried another cartridge and found it to perform acceptably. What I would say about the X5M crystal cartridge is that its output is a lot higher than the Chinese ceramic types, so will drive the amplifier harder. Another thing to remember is that the X5M cartridges will be old stock from decades ago, whereas, as far as I know, the Chinese cartridges are of fairly recent manufacture. Older cartridges will have a little less compliance due to their age, so it could be that the newer Chinese cartridge will have a lot more compliance, perhaps nearer to a magnetic type, thus needing the deck it's fitted to to be in tip-top condition and capable of lighter tracking weight to prevent any mis-tracking - this is just throwing in possibilities and speculation on what could be wrong.

As far as I can tell, all the Chinese cartridges, whether with or without clips, are all exactly the same - certainly the ones used in the cheap UK record players fitted with clips seem to be the same . This may sound strange, but when I've ordered two at a time of these cartridges, I've always ordered one from one seller and one from another. I know this isn't very 'green' and is wasteful of packaging, but my theory is that as they've got a long way to travel, if one gets lost or trashed in the post, then the other will probably get through, also I get a possibility of perhaps two different 'batch' qualities. I've never actually had a problem with any getting through, and looking at the packaging labeling, I suspect that it's possible that they all originate from the same place anyway.

So to sum up; perhaps it's down to tracking (condition of the tone arm bearing), tracking angle and position (how it's mounted in the head - check this), tracking weight (want's to be less than an X5M preferably) and lastly, perhaps they're not so good these days after all. I would still check the state of the amplifier - monitor the supply current going into the amplifier from cold and note any significant increase.

[John10b]

Techman thanks for feedback, I’ll give you and Edward some answers.
It was the X5M that performed acceptable, but as it was mono I decided to look for a suitable Stereo, as in my previous post.
The Cartridge has markings on it what looks like an Umbarella with JC under it.
The Cantilever is not metal, Edward, but some rubbery material.
The Stylus appears to be metal with a tip made of ?, not sure.
Regarding tracking weight, I started at 5g and increased up to about 8g, I did not think to go down to 2 or 3 perhaps I’ll give that a try.
Regarding tracking angle, using my protractor it is about 15 degrees. Any idea what is the optimum?
Regarding amp, I’m sure this is ok, because as I said earlier the old Sonotone( one channel only) and the X5M(mono) performs ok.
After saying all that I’m going to play around with the Cartridge Alignment and tracking weight before I consider an alternative Cartridge.
Cheers
John

[Techman]

I've just checked one of my cartridges and it has the JC emblem, so is the same as yours.

I would say that 8g is far to heavy for these, I would think no more than 5g.

I remember when these cartridges were being discussed once before, forum member 'WD40 addict' did some rather scientific tests on them, comparing them to the SC11 or SC12. He pointed out the shortcomings with them and I think produced some graphs which you may find interesting. To be honest, for the price, the performance wasn't that bad compared to the better cartridge, but I think I commented at the time that I could tell a slight difference if I listened hard enough, or words along those lines. Use the search box at the top to find this old thread, you may find it interesting. I haven't looked for it myself and it was quite sometime ago, but I may have a look for it later if I get a moment.

[John10b]

Thank you Techman I’ll take a look.
Cheers
John

[John10b]

Just carried out so further tests and I have concluded it was the alignment of the mounting bracket that caused some slight distortion. I have made the necessary adjustments and the sound is what I would expect.
Couple of observations, Bearings in mind I’m using a Monach UA15 deck.
The mounting bracket arrangement caused the Cartridge to protrude more than I would like and the tracking angle was about 20 degrees, also it would not track at less than 6 grams.
I rearranged the bracket and got the Cartridge to fit more into the head with tracking angle less than 7 degrees and set tracking weight to 7 grams.
I think that while the Red Cartridges is ok for some decks I would probably pay more and get a more suitable flip under Cartridge ( these Red ones are not flip under/ over cartridges ) in future.
I found this an interesting experience, not having tried these Red Cartridges before, and I certainly have learned from it.
Cheers
John