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Old 30th Jul 2017, 1:44 pm   #21
AC/HL
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate

Or the lighting circuit. In the early days the power tariff was higher than lighting, presumably to slow the demand on the limited generating capacity pre grid.
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 4:31 pm   #22
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate

Quote:
Originally Posted by broadgage View Post
In France there is more of a tradition of roasting small birds whole in front of a heat source.
So that is what happened to my pet Budgie Jo Jo....

These were used in just about every tea room, night watchmans/builders hut, workshop and garage. You name it. They would use them to heat soup, cook a simple meal and of course make gallons of tea and keep warm in the winter.

The switching was arranged so as not to overload the plug socket. John.
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 4:34 pm   #23
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate

Quote:
to allow operation from a 5A socket.
Yes indeed, good thought. You can't allow one's housemaids taking too much juice! What is a male housemaid called?
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 5:28 pm   #24
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate

Hello,
I was looking through some old catalogues but could not find anything like it, however a 1950s Brown Bros catalogue did have some later GEC electric fires. All the GEC domestic equipment uses codes rather then names for the products and these are of the form Dxxxx where x are numerals (Except cookers which are DCxxx).
There are eight electric fires with the same sort of radiant elements and they have codes D23xx or D24xx, which would fit with the D2400 casting number on this heater.
(Bar type fires are D27xx and D28xx etc.)
Yours, Richard
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 5:47 pm   #25
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate

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You can't allow one's housemaids taking too much juice! What is a male housemaid called?
"Jeeves"?

It was always considered "Non-U" to call servants by either their first-names or their occupations: John Betjeman's "How to get on in Society"

http://famouspoetsandpoems.com/poets...eman/poems/785

being a great pastiche of this. Irrespective of their actual name my mother always called the cleaner/cook/laundrymaid "Miss Jones" because that was the name of said functionary she remembered from her girlhood growing up on the Wales/Shropshire borders.
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 6:00 pm   #26
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate

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Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
These were used in just about every tea room, night watchmans/builders hut, workshop and garage. You name it. They would use them to heat soup, cook a simple meal and of course make gallons of tea and keep warm in the winter.
Which makes it all the more frustrating that I can't find another like it for love nor money John?.
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 7:20 pm   #27
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate

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Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell View Post
You can't allow one's housemaids taking too much juice! What is a male housemaid called?
"Jeeves"?

It was always considered "Non-U" to call servants by either their first-names or their occupations: John Betjeman's "How to get on in Society"

http://famouspoetsandpoems.com/poets...eman/poems/785

being a great pastiche of this. Irrespective of their actual name my mother always called the cleaner/cook/laundrymaid "Miss Jones" because that was the name of said functionary she remembered from her girlhood growing up on the Wales/Shropshire borders.
Why do I get the impression that G6Tanuki has never watched "Downton Abbey"?

Jeeves was a "Gentleman's gentleman" to Bertie Wooster.

Depending on the level of the male functionary, he would likely be a Footman, a Valet, or an Assistant Butler (maybe even all three).
It could have been possible that more personal servants were called by their first names, but just the surname might have been sufficient in some cases, let alone Mr., Miss, or Mrs.

Colin. (Distantly related (I like to think) to the Earl of Caernarvon).
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 7:49 pm   #28
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate

Well, it's taken me a day or so....but...5th picture...Magnet (GEC) D2400 if the link works, I think the OP's is a D2400/15 but the pic in the link (D2400) is the nearest I've found yet:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-19...p2047675.l2557

I'll reveal the Google method in a bit.

Lawrence.
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 7:53 pm   #29
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate

Brilliant. Well Done!
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 8:12 pm   #30
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate

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Brilliant. Well Done!
Cheers Graham, my street cred has been returned

Google images search entry...vintage gec magnet electric fire...

Somewhere in the returned images was a picture of an open Magnet Electric Fires catalogue, it had a picClick tag but when opened it just showed a load of aviation related stuff so back to the pic in Google images, clicked on it again then copied this text from it...VINTAGE 1930s CATALOGUE of ELECTRIC FIRES... put that in a Google completed listings search and up it came.

Lawrence.
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 8:15 pm   #31
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate

Not forgetting Mr Moose who linked the pattern number to a model number.
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 8:42 pm   #32
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate

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Not forgetting Mr Moose who linked the pattern number to a model number.
Indeed.

My initial thoughts were A) the "neata" (GEC) fuse with the Magnet logo, and B) the hole in the front of the fire, thought the hole might be for a missing "Magnet" badge/logo, turns out it wasn't but that line of thinking is what led to the Google search terms I used.

That Cat. is dated 1931, I reckon the OP's fire is quite a bit later than that, 1940's maybe.

Lawrence.
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 10:52 pm   #33
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate

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Originally Posted by AC/HL View Post
Or the lighting circuit. In the early days the power tariff was higher than lighting, presumably to slow the demand on the limited generating capacity pre grid.
I believe that you are mistaken about this.
Power and lighting were indeed charged at different rates, but the "power" rate was invariably cheaper than the "lighting" rate.

In the very early days of electricity supply, it was used primarily for lighting. The supplier therefore had to invest a lot of capital in plant that only produced significant revenue between dusk and midnight.
The lighting rate was therefore high, over 1 a unit in todays money, since it had to cover not just the coal cost but also repayments of the capital invested.
Power companies therefore sought to build the "daylight load" for non lighting purposes. Power for such daytime uses could be generated for little more than the cost of coal burnt, since the capital had already been sunk.

The "power" rate was often less than half of the lighting rate. Cookers and water heaters were often sold or rented very cheaply to encourage use of electricity for such purposes.

"power" circuits often used 5 amp sockets in the early days, hence the desire to restrict loadings to about this figure.

Dishonest consumers connected lamps to power circuits so as to obtain illumination at the lower power tariff.
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 11:10 pm   #34
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate. Identified as a Magnet (GEC) D2400.

There is a link to go missing here.
The image of the catalogue entry.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	e_fire.jpeg
Views:	104
Size:	53.0 KB
ID:	147110  
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Old 31st Jul 2017, 12:02 am   #35
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate. Identified as a Magnet (GEC) D2400.

Wow!.....I'm sooo impressed Lawrence, thank you...very, very much!!
Now all I need is to find a small bayonet pigmy 5W `Osglim` bulb....although the only one I can find at present, despite being not suitable, is selling for 90 pounds on ebay....so I'm now wondering if it'd be worth the investment, assuming I might find one some day...wouldn't have thought the unit itself was worth much as it stands & can't really imagine that it'd be worth 90 quid more if it had the original lamp fitted? Any thoughts welcomed.
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Old 31st Jul 2017, 12:31 am   #36
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate. Identified as a Magnet (GEC) D2400.

My bewilderment at seeing a 1930ish base on a much later appliance is fully accounted for now. I imagine demand for these was quite limited - after all, we've not found anyone else producing the same combination - which would have justified the unit staying in the catalogue for a good while but with minimal further attention to its design.

I still think this particular unit was made around the mid to late '50s - the plate surrounding the switch is completely unlike anything that was current in 1931 - and by then I can't imagine it would have been fitted with an Osglim lamp. So a relatively standard pigmy filament lamp would be my best guess at the original fitment.

Paul
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Old 31st Jul 2017, 12:45 am   #37
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate. Identified as a Magnet (GEC) D2400.

I remember that my uncle's flat had a pygmy-sized Osglim bulb as the pilot light for his 15A kitchen socket, providing an end-on view of a glowing round disc. A pity I don't have a photo: it was a large wooden board with a massive switch, underneath which, flanked by two fuse holders, was a BC batten holder with a HO skirt containing the Osglim, and under that the 15A socket itself. Our flat was upstairs with an identical arrangement, and as, unlike the downstairs flat, we had no electric light in the kitchen, a 60W lamp was fitted to provide illumination rather than an Osglim. A red pygmy should do just as well.
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Old 31st Jul 2017, 11:55 am   #38
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate. Identified as a Magnet (GEC) D2400.

Quote:
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My bewilderment at seeing a 1930ish base on a much later appliance is fully accounted for now. I imagine demand for these was quite limited - after all, we've not found anyone else producing the same combination - which would have justified the unit staying in the catalogue for a good while but with minimal further attention to its design.

I still think this particular unit was made around the mid to late '50s - the plate surrounding the switch is completely unlike anything that was current in 1931 .
I'm unsure why this appliance should be from the '50s? It appears to correspond precisely to the catalogue image in all respects, including the switch surround- although of course we can't see the font- and the switch itself is a standard four position switch (3 + off) that GEC used on all their cookers at that time- my 'Magnet' 3 hob oven has identical units, and dates to circa. 1935. I would rather expect a unit built in the '50s to incorporate the then-ubiquitous 'simmerstat' control, and also be rather more numerous in surviving examples- these would be ideal for the awful multiple-occupancy house conversions that proliferated after the war- and yet none of us have seen one of these before!

Oliver
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Old 31st Jul 2017, 4:29 pm   #39
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate. Identified as a Magnet (GEC) D2400.

I definitely wouldn't expect one of these from the '50s to incorporate a 'Simmerstat', as I'm not sure I've ever seen one used to control a boiling ring that had a maximum loading of 1kW, and employing a standard ring would preclude using the appliance on a 5A circuit.

Solid hotplates with four position switches were in widespread use, as far as I know, on full sized cookers well into the 1950s, and I've a green and cream GEC example myself.

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/G1DJW5/cred...the-G1DJW5.jpg

shows a typical '50s style cooker. To the best of my knowledge the 'Simmerstat' took quite a while to extend from high-end appliances to being pretty much universal, a process that was only completed somewhere around 1960.

It's the control escutcheon and the colour scheme that persuade me this isn't from the 1930s, and I would be surprised if it's from the '40s. Established designs that weren't particularly popular but had a certain steady market did tend to linger in catalogues for a very long time. A parallel instance is the Belling Champion heater, where the two most popular models, for 750W and 1500W, were redesigned probably as early as the late 1940s - I don't have a string of catalogues to tell me exactly when - as lightweight versions that would have been cheaper to produce, whereas the big 2250W 83A was just kept in production, little changed, from WWII until the early '60s when it was finally dropped.

Paul
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Old 31st Jul 2017, 9:04 pm   #40
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Default Re: Mystery vintage electric fire/hotplate. Identified as a Magnet (GEC) D2400.

Paul RK.....personally I've little interest in this thing's age, only its identity.
However, I find myself becoming more & more intrigued as to why you yourself seem somewhat hell-bent on convincing yourself that this is some 25/30 years younger than the scant evidence at our disposal suggests.
You originally stated "The base seems to show the Egyptian design influence that wasn't much seen except around 1930, but everything else suggests mid to late '50s to me"
Now a 1931 catalogue comes to light, showing the exact same unit, including what appears to be the same switch plate as far as one can tell and you now state that "My bewilderment at seeing a 1930ish base on a much later appliance is fully accounted for now"
Come again?
The `everything else` that suggests mid to late 50's to you is clearly displayed in a 1931 catalogue, so surely you are mistaken, with respect?
Moving on you now suggest that it's the colour that gives it away, by which you mean the Devon Cream enamel that was so popular on 1930's domestic appliances I assume?
This argument that "I imagine demand for these was quite limited - which would have justified the unit staying in the catalogue for a good while but with minimal further attention to its design" seems weak at best.....regardless your example of the Champion.
I really can't imagine how a company as large & successful as GEC ever got to be that way if its sales policy was to place a product on sale, see it flop big time & decide it best practice to therefore leave it unchanged, unselling, for the next 25/30 years....surely they would've updated/redesigned many times over in an attempt to make it a more attractive buy, or dropped it as a dead donkey?
Regarding the indicator lamp.......I fitted a 15W SBC pigmy. It is not possible to do this from the front, only by removing the back, unbolting the holder from the base, fitting the pigmy and then reassembling.....& it only just fits, the bulb pressing so hard against the front plate that I was surprised to have managed it without shattering said bulb as I retightened the holder to the base.
Furthermore, my reason for attacking in this manner was because the holder had the remains of a bulb bayonet firmly encrusted into it which couldn't be removed from the front. I've now sifted through the bin in my workshop & retrieved that bulb end. A bit of wet/dry, some WD40 & a touch of T-Cut has managed to show `Osglim...Made in England...230/240V....05, possibly 0.5W.
All things considered, including the fact that the 1931 catalogue is no guarantee that it is introducing the D2400 for the first time as a ` New/This years model` , then it's more likely a better guess that this thing is 1930's or earlier....rather than your somewhat strange insistence of later.
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