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Old 30th Sep 2017, 9:39 am   #1
llama
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Default Eumig 510D projector jerky

Thanks to lots of help in an earlier thread of mine I have done some reasonable viewing on this machine.

However, I still have the problem of jerkiness. The machine pulls through enough film to display, creating a loop, and when the loop is used up it pulls through another tranche. As it snatches this new loop the image jerks. It is bad enough to be annoying.

If I manually feed the supply spool to keep a constant loop there is no jerking but I can't be doing that for 40 minutes!

There doesn't seem to be any back-tension so maybe a light felt brake would help - however, that would mean the spool being jerked every frame which sounds like it might be a bit hard on the film and the projector's claw.

Any other ideas, please?
Graham
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Old 30th Sep 2017, 5:11 pm   #2
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Default Re: Eumig 510D projector jerky

AFAIK the supply, pulldown and take up should be near on continuous shouldn't they? No jerking. Is the supply reel over-running, leading to a small surplus of film that is 'used' then the claw has to start the reel moving again from scratch every so often, causing a jerk? I'd have thought a slight bit of back tension on the supply would be desirable.

there's a eumig on youtube with what I assume is an exaggerated effect of what you might have?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKjkBvzB32o

PS, dont want to insult you but I assume it's threaded properly....some early projectors need a manual loop at the top and bottom of the gate in between the sprockets and the gate to isolate the gate from the reels, as it were. Later ones form the loop automatically.
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Old 30th Sep 2017, 6:04 pm   #3
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Default Re: Eumig 510D projector jerky

I don't know which model it is, but an Eumig that I have shows little dotted lines to help with making sure the loops are there before and after the gate. If you don't make sure they are there, it is certainly bad at feeding smoothly.
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Old 1st Oct 2017, 9:28 am   #4
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Default Re: Eumig 510D projector jerky

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Originally Posted by McMurdo View Post
Is the supply reel over-running, leading to a small surplus of film that is 'used' then the claw has to start the reel moving again from scratch every so often, causing a jerk?
PS, dont want to insult you but I assume it's threaded properly....some early projectors need a manual loop at the top and bottom of the gate in between the sprockets and the gate to isolate the gate from the reels, as it were. Later ones form the loop automatically.
Perfect description of what's happening, Kevin. And the Youtube video shows the effect well.

Regarding the threading, I don't really know if the film is following the correct path - I'll have to look for any little dots. However, there is a channel in the plastic casing where I've been feeding the film in and from there it emerges automatically in the take-up spool area so there doesn't seem much scope for a wrong route. Contrary to my comment in my earlier thread, the "spool-not-cassette" block doesn't seem to make any difference whether it's in place or not.

I will see if the supply spool hub can be dismantled a bit and then see if a bit of friction can be introduced.
Thanks for the tips.
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Old 1st Oct 2017, 12:21 pm   #5
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Default Re: Eumig 510D projector jerky

I recall there was a Eumig that didn't have a sprocket drive and instead used rubber rollers to keep the film inline and drive the film to the claw/gate. If it's one of those (I don't know the model) then you may have hardened rollers and the feed is slipping. Only way to find out is take the covers off and look.
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Old 1st Oct 2017, 2:05 pm   #6
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Default Re: Eumig 510D projector jerky

if you switch it on, feed it in one slot and it comes out of the other then it sounds like an auto threading machine. On manual units you have to swing the lens assembly out of the way and thread it all up with the motor off using your fingers. The owners booklet would be helpful!
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Old 5th Oct 2017, 8:46 am   #7
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Default Re: Eumig 510D projector jerky

Quote:
Originally Posted by vidjoman View Post
I recall there was a Eumig that didn't have a sprocket drive and instead used rubber rollers to keep the film inline and drive the film to the claw/gate. If it's one of those (I don't know the model) then you may have hardened rollers and the feed is slipping. Only way to find out is take the covers off and look.
This sounds like a likely cause.
There should be a loop before and after the gate, and if the top loop is only fed by friction and not a proper sprocket then that will be the cause.

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Old 5th Oct 2017, 1:27 pm   #8
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Default Re: Eumig 510D projector jerky

I believe the 510D is sprocket-less, a picture with the side cover removed would prove this.

Your fault description certainly sounds like there's no top sprocket so tension adjustment becomes critical.

The later 920 series used coaxial reels and no top sprocket, only bottom, and steadiness is pretty good. (the mechanism was originally meant for a TV style projector with built-in screen so missing top sprocket probably saved space/cost).

The final 940 series produced just before they went bust reverted to conventional fore and aft reels with both a top and bottom sprocket.
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Old 5th Oct 2017, 6:51 pm   #9
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Default Re: Eumig 510D projector jerky

Can't really do photos at the moment but various comments on this and my other thread would seem to indicate sprocket-less. We're used to German over-engineering but under? Anyway I found that using gaffa tape to hold an old marker pen across the top of the machine to form a loop helps a lot. It seems to convert intermittent snatches into more or less continuous pull by generating something akin to dither.

Applying light pressure to create back-tension on the feed spool makes matters much worse.

There is a round-section belt above the lens which is moved to the feed spool area, together with a sharp scoop device when a loading lever is pushed over. It's actually easier to feed a little film into the appropriate slot than to use this crude loading device. However, when in its normal position the outside of the belt on the innermost pulley is close to or possible touching the film path above the lens. I've tried rubbing it with sandpaper with no effect and have ordered some 3mm O-ring cord to make a brand new one. I see there is a thumb nut adjustment on the abovementioned pulley to apparently alter its diameter so I'll give that a go when the new belting arrives.

It seems very hard to clean the gate area and I'm wondering if using the Super-8 mask would allow me to get the awkward fluff out.
Graham
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Old 8th Oct 2017, 9:10 am   #10
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Default Re: Eumig 510D projector jerky

Regarding clearing the gate area out - might a can of compressed air come in handy?
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Old 8th Oct 2017, 12:48 pm   #11
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Default Re: Eumig 510D projector jerky

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Originally Posted by red16v View Post
Regarding clearing the gate area out - might a can of compressed air come in handy?
Good idea. I'll get one next time I'm in Rapid. Thanks.
Graham
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Old 8th Oct 2017, 12:58 pm   #12
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Default Re: Eumig 510D projector jerky

I’ve never come across a projector where the gate cannot be opened for cleaning.
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Old 8th Oct 2017, 8:40 pm   #13
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Default Re: Eumig 510D projector jerky

My suggestion of compressed air came from my telecine days. If you were running a film 'live' on air and got some fluff in the optical gate you couldn't just stop the film, open up the gate and wipe the fluff off as probably quite a few million people would notice you doing so! So, the practice of blowing compressed air across the gate whilst the film was still running was always top of the list to try.

Someone once did try and blow the fluff out with his cheeks puffed out, when he blew - out came rather a large quantity of the fruit cake he was eating at the same time. Think they had to stop the film whilst he was on air for that one!!
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Old 8th Oct 2017, 10:28 pm   #14
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Default Re: Eumig 510D projector jerky

I used to be one of the projectionists operating the 16mm projector for the film club when I was a student, and the fluff-removing technique used by one of the more experienced projectionists was to apply a dab of spit to the incoming film with his fingertip. Surprisingly, it usually worked. I have never tried it with my home movies!
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