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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment. |
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28th May 2019, 12:08 pm | #1 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 3
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Celestion 44 - Mids
Hi Guys,
I'm new here, so a big Hello! to everyone. Could use some experience and advice... I picked up some 44's, at a good price. Mk1's I believe. All the drivers are all looking good, cabinets not too bad not too bad either. The sound-stage, and clarity are great. But the Mids' especially high-mids are very pronounced, and sounding kinda crunchy/boxy. For example, I tried out some recent Springsteen, and it was sounding squeezed and squashed. Having heard nothing but amazing things about the 44s, this just seems kinda weird. I guess I'm wondering how much of this is partly the sound profile of the 44's and my not being adjusted to it, being more used to contemporary speakers with a more recessed sound. Could it possibly be super-old crossovers? I'm considering new crossovers that available from amocom crossovers. Any experince of those? Any thoughts greatly appreciated |
28th May 2019, 12:37 pm | #2 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 3,315
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Re: Celestion 44 - Mids
You need to check that the speaker xovers have not been modified/changed and also that the speakers are original typs and not changed.
The makers spend considerable time getting the best sound from the drivers and xovers and are designed to match each other. Over time some parts in the xover may change/fail and need replacement - so check first. Using another make of xover is fraught with problems as they won't match the speakers. |
28th May 2019, 1:02 pm | #3 |
Heptode
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 687
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Re: Celestion 44 - Mids
I had a pair of Mk 2s for 20 years plus and never thougt they sounded like that to be honest, very good sounding speakers.
Steve. |
28th May 2019, 1:33 pm | #4 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: London, UK.
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Thanks guys.
Exactly Steve. That's my memeory of them and their reputation. vidjoman, I've attached pics I've just taken of the crossovers. So if you've any idea if these have been fiddled with, do let me know. Thanks again |
29th May 2019, 7:23 am | #5 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sleaford, Lincs. UK.
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Re: Celestion 44 - Mids
Playing The Bruce through them has probably burnt something out... kidding : ) The caps are getting on a bit not and would benefit from changing, unless as you say you have some cash to throw at new ones.
There's a good thread on these speakers by Kat Manton an old member that's worth a read. https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=55474 Andy.
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Curiosity hasn't killed this cat...so far. Last edited by Station X; 29th May 2019 at 9:17 am. Reason: Link added. |
29th May 2019, 8:37 am | #6 |
Rest in Peace
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Basildon, Essex, UK.
Posts: 4,100
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Re: Celestion 44 - Mids
crunchy/boxy, squeezed, squashed, recessed sound.
I have no idea what these terms mean in the audio sense. But if you are unhappy with the speakers and think they may not be performing as well as they should, then changing the capacitors for new foil or bi-polar types of the same value is probably the best you can do. If you can't get the exact same value you can get close by adding maybe 2 capacitors to make up the value, either in series or parallel. I assume you have checked the movement of the diaphragms and there is no scratching or rubbing? Mike |
29th May 2019, 9:04 am | #7 |
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
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Re: Celestion 44 - Mids
The inductors in the crossovers will be fine. To all intents and purposes immortal with no degradation mechanisms. But the electrolytic capacitors are well past their life expectancy.
This is going to feed frequency ranges of sound to drivers which are beyond their normal operating ranges, and will cause drop off in level to some drivers. Swap the capacitors for modern parts and you should hear a difference. Don't bother with 'audiophile' capacitors. They're a bit of a joke along the lines of the emperor's new clothes. New plastic foil or plastic film ones are nice and should last for ever, but they'll cost a bit and be quite large in the values needed. AC-rated bipolar electrolytics are small, cheap and will put the crossovers back to original. Check the surrounds of the speaker cones are undamaged (some go crumbly) and move the cones a little - taking care to move them in the operating direction while listening for any grating noises. They can be fixed and new surrounds are DIY jobs - replacements are available. David
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29th May 2019, 9:08 pm | #8 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 5,997
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Re: Celestion 44 - Mids
You should not run them too loud until you have replaced those capacitors as the tweeters will blow. Replacing the capacitors is likely to make a big difference to the sound. They will be BIPOLAR electrolytics and must be replaced with BIPOLAR types. Alternatively, you can use film capacitors as suggested by David but they could work out quite large as there are 2x 72uF 50V as well as others. You need to make up the exact values by wiring capacitors in parallel for example 25uF + 47uF would get you to 72uF.
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29th May 2019, 10:19 pm | #9 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 5,997
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Re: Celestion 44 - Mids
Yours look like the early type as in this diagram https://www.diyaudio.com/archive/gal...hoto/4225.html
C5 and C1 are the ones that can cause damage. They filter out the higher energy low frequencies that can kill the tweeter and less likely the mid range speaker. Alcap electrolytic capacitors are still available but not cheap. |
30th May 2019, 10:15 am | #10 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 3
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Re: Celestion 44 - Mids
Wow!
Thanks you, one and all. I coldn't have really asked for more?! OK, so a capacitor search will commence. I'm determined to restore these as best as I can. The bottom end is so gorgeous and the clarity is almost there. It must be the capacitors that are altering the sound. I've run them with my recently departed Dads Quad II and an Arcam delta 290 and 290p, and with both (very different) amps the mids just seem not quite right. Checked the cones as Radio Wrangler suggested, and they seem in good health. Thank you all for taking the time. I shall report back |
30th May 2019, 5:45 pm | #11 |
Hexode
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire, UK.
Posts: 454
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Re: Celestion 44 - Mids
Alcaps from Falcon Acoustics are a great match for many vintage crossover caps and are cost effective. I’ve used caps from there to do a few speakers now with no problems.
Mike |