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Old 26th May 2005, 3:44 pm   #1
goldenfleece
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Default BSR UA8 deck & cartridge wiring.

Just acquired a Philco model 60 record player, appears to be a stereo version with 2 speakers, with a BSR UA8 Monarch deck. I did not know you could get stereo equipment that featured the old 50's BSR Monarch deck, but there are 4 wires coming out of the headshell, but only 2 are connected up to a Garrard flip over mono cartridge. There is a loud humming from the speakers, both working and giving mono output, and the sound output is fairly quiet for something with relatively hefty speakers in it. I am guessing something is not connected or earthed correctly, or the wrong cartridge with the wrong output voltage? The black and blue wires from the headshell are hanging loose as there is nothing to connect them to on a mono cartridge.....how do I correctly connect up a mono cartridge and get rid of this annoying hum.......or could it be a duff cart?

Last edited by Darren-UK; 30th May 2007 at 6:53 pm. Reason: Unnecessary reference to Dansette removed to make search hits more accurate.
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Old 26th May 2005, 4:33 pm   #2
mickjjo
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Default Re: STEREO WIRING IN A BSR UA8 deck??

Hi, I've attached the circuit for the model 60 and it shows a TC8S stereo cartridge should be fitted, you may have to trace out the connections, but be carefull as the input circuit is not isolated from the mains . A mono cartridge would need the inputs of both amplifiers connected together to work both speakers.

Regards, Mick.
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Old 26th May 2005, 5:41 pm   #3
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Default Re: STEREO WIRING IN A BSR UA8 deck??

Not an expert at this but if I am to keep the mono cartridge, should the blue and black pick up wire connectors just be hanging free under the tone arm, or linked to the other 2?
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Old 26th May 2005, 5:49 pm   #4
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Default Re: STEREO WIRING IN A BSR UA8 deck??

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenfleece
Not an expert at this but if I am to keep the mono cartridge, should the blue and black pick up wire connectors just be hanging free under the tone arm, or linked to the other 2?
Have you checked the other end of the wires ?
It is possible that the cartridge is wired to feed both L and R sides sides of the input Amp to allow for a Mono cartridge being fitted at some time in the past.

Gavin
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Old 26th May 2005, 5:55 pm   #5
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Default Re: STEREO WIRING IN A BSR UA8 deck??

Both speakers are working and giving mono output, so they must be connected together. I was just concerned about the excessive hum which goes much quieter when I physically touch the tone arm, it suggests poor earthing? If I can get my bluetooth digital camera to work I will put up some pix of the connection board the wires from the tonearm are soldered to underneath the turntable base..one of the cartridge output wires is not connected at all at either end....not an expert on circuit diagrams, wish I was.
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Old 26th May 2005, 6:28 pm   #6
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Default Re: STEREO WIRING IN A BSR UA8 deck??

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenfleece
Both speakers are working and giving mono output, so they must be connected together.
You're right, they must be, but maybe not in the normal, correct way

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenfleece
I was just concerned about the excessive hum which goes much quieter when I physically touch the tone arm, it suggests poor earthing?
Again, you're right, but the "poor earthing" could be due to many things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenfleece
If I can get my bluetooth digital camera to work I will put up some pix of the connection board the wires from the tonearm are soldered to underneath the turntable base..one of the cartridge output wires is not connected at all at either end....not an expert on circuit diagrams, wish I was.
A picture would help tremendously! Take one of the cartridge connections and the tagstrip under the deck if you possibly can.

Don't forget what Mick said, in other words that this isn't the safest record player in the world at the best of times, and that you could easily get a shock by touching the cartridge wires

The circuit diagram suggests that you should connect the silver mains wire to the Neutral plug teminal, and the copper coloured one to the Live terminal. Then you should be slightly safer - assuming that no-one's messed around with the mains wiring inside the record player, and that your socket is wired properly - no guarantees there

Nick.

Last edited by Nickthedentist; 26th May 2005 at 6:32 pm.
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Old 26th May 2005, 6:38 pm   #7
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Default Re: STEREO WIRING IN A BSR UA8 deck??

Dont panic, never touch wires when plugged into the mains with equipment this old......

Pictures below but rather poor as taken on mobile phone and bluetoothed to the PC. Cant get in focus under the tone arm itself, but BLACK and BLUE tags are hanging loose leaving the other two (red and yellow) attached to the TWO tags on the mono flip over cartridge.

The base connector board under the tag has green black and red attached, see picture, but BLACK is loose at the cartridge end and not connected to anything. BLUE is hanging free at both ends and not connected to anything at all. The output from the small connector board is shown, might have been rewired for mono as 2 leads run from the black wire, and single leads from red and yellow. Hope that makes some sort of sense......
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Old 26th May 2005, 7:17 pm   #8
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Default Re: STEREO WIRING IN A BSR UA8 deck??

The original BSR wiring colours for mono machines was along these lines...

red --- signal
black --- ground

with the blue and yellow leads tucked up in the headshell out the way.

For stereo machines....

the red and black connect the right channel (signal and ground) whilst

yellow --- signal left
blue --- ground - if the cartridge had a fourth pin. Most BSR TCH stereo cartridges only had three - using the black lead as a common ground and blue tucked away as before.

Correcting the wiring on the tag board underneath the deck (the blue wire shouldn't be floating in mid-air and the rest sounds as if it isn't quite original) depends on what cartridge you use.
The mono Garrard fitted could well be faulty anyway and responsible for the low output - they don't age to well from my experience. Besides it would be nice to fit a stereo one as you have the extra speaker!

I would link the black and blue on the tag board - then that will cover both 3 and four terminal cartridges. This in turn should connect to C8, the other end of which goes to the screen of the amp input leads and C9.

The red and yellow would then connect to separate terminals connecting to R9a and R9b respectively for the two signal inputs. If you are going to use a mono cartridge then fit a link between the red and yellow terminals.

If hum remains a problem (and it isn't due to problems elsewhere eg the main electrolytic capacitors etc) it would be worth checking C9 and its connections. It may be advisable to replace this cap anyway with a good quality - high voltage (class X) type as the "isolation" of the turntable metalwork (such as it is) depends on this.

Stewart

P.S. I think this deck just pre-dates the five terminal tag strip that became standard on later BSRs

Last edited by Darren-UK; 30th May 2007 at 6:51 pm. Reason: Reference to previous post, now deleted, removed.
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Old 26th May 2005, 8:04 pm   #9
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Default Re: STEREO WIRING IN A BSR UA8 deck??

There appears to be a connector on the metal under the deck itself connected to the BLACK centre wire on the tag. It runs through a brown coloured component which you can just see the corner of in one of the pictures bearing the word EERIE, dont know what component that will be? Anyway this is broken in the middle....is this the key issue here? Can I just reconnect the broken wirewire from the tag to the metal turntable or am I playing with high voltage issues here?
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Old 26th May 2005, 8:36 pm   #10
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Default Re: STEREO WIRING IN A BSR UA8 deck??

That brown component looks like it will be a capacitor, (C8 on the diagram), so you will need to replace it with a 0.01 uf capacitor rated at 600volts at least. this forms the earth return for the cartridge and also provides isolation from the mains, replacing this may well cure your hum problems, if the original is broken. .

Regards Mick.
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Old 26th May 2005, 8:45 pm   #11
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Default Re: STEREO WIRING IN A BSR UA8 deck??

The component itself does not seem to be broken, only the wire rom the tag on which it is connected running to the turntable base. Can I therefore just reconnect and see what happens? It was running without this connected at all (with the humming noise) but there was no problem with mains current reaching the turntable metal.......I can then get a new component if the humming is eliminated at this stage.....please advise if this is "safe" to do, but reconnecting a broken earth wire should not make it any less safe I imagine....

Bear in mind I am not a "professional", just someone who likes to do a bit of DIY on these things. Had no idea such record playerdesigns were inherantly "unsafe", or is this the design of the turntable itself rather than the amplifier on this machine...
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Old 26th May 2005, 9:29 pm   #12
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Default Re: STEREO WIRING IN A BSR UA8 deck??

If it is just a disconnected wire then yes, reconnect and try it. Regarding safety, the main issue is the lack of a transformer to isolate the circuitry from the mains, this was quite common with record players, and was usually done to save costs at the lower end of the market. While not meeting modern standards, they are quite safe to use when wired correctly and all covers are in place, those working on them should be aware of the risks. .

Regards, Mick.
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Old 27th May 2005, 8:47 am   #13
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Default MONARCH UA8 deck issues

I repaired to broken wire from the capacitor and it cured the humming sound for sure, nothing at all now even at full volume. Thanks for all the help and advice given here.

Also noted a problem with a slightly scraping turntable which appeared to be a tiny warping of the platter. An extra washer at the base of the turntable gave it enough lift to clear the chassis without disengaging from the auto mechanisms........


Think I will have to stick with the mono cartridge, one of the other wires designed for stereo carts has been chopped far too close to where it vanishes inside the tone arm, obviously an aborted attempt at replacing a connecting tag. That looks a nightmare to try and fix without removing all the wiring from the tone arm and starting again, there is no free play to pull through to access the blue wire to fit another tag. Oh well......

Also had a problem with the auto record size "flipper" getting stuck inside its housing and not springing back out after playing a 12" LP. So 7" records are now being sized as 12" ones when using the auotchanger.......Anyone familiar with the BSR record size "flipper"? It seems a very delicate device.

One last thing, anyone got a spare speed selector knob for the UA8 deck? Mine has been replaced with a later model version.....
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Old 27th May 2005, 9:06 am   #14
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Smile Re: STEREO WIRING IN A BSR UA8 deck??

Hello Goldenfleece, The flipper spindle may well just require cleaning and a little lubrication. From memory on BSR decks, You should be able to remove a circlip from the underside of the deck, and withdraw the flipper and shaft out through the top. As for the tonearm a little trick we used to use was to tie a lengh of fishing line or the like and use it to pull a lengh of new cable through.
If the blue wire is broken is it not possible to use the black as a common negative at the back of the cartridge for both L & R channels?. Other forum members may correct me here.

Regards.
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Old 27th May 2005, 9:29 am   #15
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Default Re: STEREO WIRING IN A BSR UA8 deck??

Will have to look into that at some point if I want to re-convert back to stereo......

Another tech question though, how precise is the stylus pressure adjustment spring on these decks? It seems to be excessively heavy to me, perhaps 8 grams even, but moving the spring to another notch at the rear of the arm seems to make it too light. Hardly a precision instrument.....I guess old stylus were not terribly fussy about precision weighting, and certainly old records dont seem to care one bit. Have not noted huge chunks of vinyl coming off my 60's LP's.....but a 1989 manufactured 45 single looked decidely worse for wear after one play on the BSR deck....positively frayed in fact with traces of vinyl on the stylus afterwards.
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Old 27th May 2005, 9:39 am   #16
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Thumbs up Re: STEREO WIRING IN A BSR UA8 deck??

8 grams sounds about right, HOWEVER if you have a precious record collection dont use them on this deck, as it will cause excessive wear to them, in my teen years when i had such a player one only had to play a record a couple of dozen times and the wear was VERY noticeable- hisses crackles etc. They were crude compared to the modern decks with magnetic cartridges and low tracking forces (2 grams or so).

All the best.

Forgot to mention too light a tracking force will also cause wear as the stylus will not sit in the groove snugly.

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Old 27th May 2005, 9:48 am   #17
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Default Re: STEREO WIRING IN A BSR UA8 deck??

On the subject of record wear, early mono cartridges are not suitable for stereo records, and will chew them up and spit out the bits, as in your 1989 example, due to little or no vertical compliance.

In your case it may be worth waiting for a stereo cartridge like the BSR SX5 M or H to turn up.

Regards, Mick.

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