Marconiphone 4047 (C129 R) mid restoration....nearly there. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

sten969 · 5th Dec 2016, 8:04 pm

Hi everyone,

Firstly, as a new forum member I'd like to say Hi and thanks to all the posters on this site. Great stuff. Following guidance provided here I've very nearly restored a Marconiphone 4047 (C129 R) deck. It exhibited what seems to be a common BSR problem of a seized turntable. Having cleaned and re-lubed the cam and cleaned up the idler wheel the deck is working very well. There is one problem though in that the unit will not switch off once the arm has returned to it's rest position. I can switch it off manually by pushing the slider to the off position and can (as you'd expect) move it into the off position when accessing the workings from below. I suspect as Darren (Dekatron) has advised it's likely that the mechanism may be gunked/fouled up underneath. I can't seem to spot the problem area though. This is a bit of a sentimental project as it is the same deck that my grandad had and I'm trying to get it up and running 100% again (we still have his records which we'll be playing over the Christmas period) - sorry about the life story there. I've attached 3 pics of the mechanism as seen from above and two from underneath (one showing the deck in the play position and the other in the off position). Any help would be much appreciated! Many thanks.

Edward Huggins · 6th Dec 2016, 11:30 am

It's not a Marconiphine deck, it's a BSR C109. The fault you have is very common. If you gently turn the platter as it reaches the stop mode does the lever go back to OFF as it should? If so, this is to do with some lack of good contact between the rubber idler wheel and the inside of the platter. Clean both the edge of the wheel with EXTREMELY fine wet and dry and the inside of the rim with white spirit, or better still, isopropyl alcohol.

sten969 · 6th Dec 2016, 9:44 pm

Thanks for the answer Edward. Strange, the label on the back of the unit says 4047 and the badge on the front says Marconiphone as does the stencil on the control panel. I've googled images for the Marconiphone 4047 and it shows the exact same model. I've attached a photo for your information. I have cleaned the idler wheel with IA and very gently sanded...I was a bit wary doing that as I didn't want to create a flat spot. My knowledge is very limited but I thought good idler contact and maintenance was more to do with correct speed/pitch rather than the unit auto shutting off? The arm does lift and return to its resting position but on lowering I hear a soft click but the switch does not shift to the off position. Thanks again.

AC/HL · 6th Dec 2016, 10:06 pm

It's a matter of terminology. Your player is a Marconiphone 4047. Deck is a commonly used term for a turntable, or in this case autochanger.

Edward Huggins · 7th Dec 2016, 11:19 am

Ah, now I can see it, it's a later version of the BSR Deck than I thought. You are correct in that the idler/rim contact is essential for accurate speed and pitch - but it also ensures enough turntable torque to switch off the mechanism which it should do. BTW, I can't see the centre stacking spindle?

sten969 · 8th Dec 2016, 3:58 pm

Thanks Edward. That's a stock picture I grabbed from the internet - fortunately my turntable does have the spindle in place. That makes sense about needing enough torque for it to switch off. Having very lightly sanded and cleaned the idler wheel and inner rim of the platter with IA perhaps I now need to look at the motor?

Edward Huggins · 8th Dec 2016, 7:41 pm

There is unlikely to be nothing wrong with the motor. Also the spindle has no affect on the platter's torque. Are you saying you are using this without a spindle? For it to fully operate you need the longer autochanger spindle or for manual use, the short stub spinde - so how are you able to use it?

Station X · 8th Dec 2016, 9:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

There is unlikely to be nothing wrong with the motor.

Double negatives aside, do you really mean that?

sten969 · 13th Dec 2016, 9:25 pm

Edward, as mentioned in my last post I do indeed have the spindle in place and I was in fact agreeing with you about the torque point you made. I don't think I could be much clearer. I'll try to break it down again.

1) Turntable is working fine at all speeds. Pitch is fine also - no wow etc.
2) Spindle is in place.
3) Idler wheel has been lightly sanded.
4) IA has been applied to inner rim and rubber outer of idler wheel.
5) Problem is that the turntable doesn't auto switch off when arm returns.

Many thanks.

kevin m · 15th Dec 2016, 9:52 pm

You will have dried up grease on the underside of the mechanism. but with the slight changes BSR made to the different models, its hard to say where the issue will actually be. Is there any way you can upload a picture of the underside of the mechanism.

Kev

sten969 · 9th Mar 2017, 8:31 pm

Thanks for the responses everyone. The problem cleared itself after a few hours of playing and now auto stops fine.

5th Dec 2016, 8:04 pm	#1
sten969 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 8	Marconiphone 4047 (C129 R) mid restoration....nearly there. Hi everyone, Firstly, as a new forum member I'd like to say Hi and thanks to all the posters on this site. Great stuff. Following guidance provided here I've very nearly restored a Marconiphone 4047 (C129 R) deck. It exhibited what seems to be a common BSR problem of a seized turntable. Having cleaned and re-lubed the cam and cleaned up the idler wheel the deck is working very well. There is one problem though in that the unit will not switch off once the arm has returned to it's rest position. I can switch it off manually by pushing the slider to the off position and can (as you'd expect) move it into the off position when accessing the workings from below. I suspect as Darren (Dekatron) has advised it's likely that the mechanism may be gunked/fouled up underneath. I can't seem to spot the problem area though. This is a bit of a sentimental project as it is the same deck that my grandad had and I'm trying to get it up and running 100% again (we still have his records which we'll be playing over the Christmas period) - sorry about the life story there. I've attached 3 pics of the mechanism as seen from above and two from underneath (one showing the deck in the play position and the other in the off position). Any help would be much appreciated! Many thanks. Attached Thumbnails

6th Dec 2016, 11:30 am	#2
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,340	Re: Marconiphone 4047 (C129 R) mid restoration....nearly there. It's not a Marconiphine deck, it's a BSR C109. The fault you have is very common. If you gently turn the platter as it reaches the stop mode does the lever go back to OFF as it should? If so, this is to do with some lack of good contact between the rubber idler wheel and the inside of the platter. Clean both the edge of the wheel with EXTREMELY fine wet and dry and the inside of the rim with white spirit, or better still, isopropyl alcohol. __________________ Edward.

6th Dec 2016, 9:44 pm	#3
sten969 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 8	Re: Marconiphone 4047 (C129 R) mid restoration....nearly there. Thanks for the answer Edward. Strange, the label on the back of the unit says 4047 and the badge on the front says Marconiphone as does the stencil on the control panel. I've googled images for the Marconiphone 4047 and it shows the exact same model. I've attached a photo for your information. I have cleaned the idler wheel with IA and very gently sanded...I was a bit wary doing that as I didn't want to create a flat spot. My knowledge is very limited but I thought good idler contact and maintenance was more to do with correct speed/pitch rather than the unit auto shutting off? The arm does lift and return to its resting position but on lowering I hear a soft click but the switch does not shift to the off position. Thanks again. Attached Thumbnails

6th Dec 2016, 10:06 pm	#4
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,642	Re: Marconiphone 4047 (C129 R) mid restoration....nearly there. It's a matter of terminology. Your player is a Marconiphone 4047. Deck is a commonly used term for a turntable, or in this case autochanger.

7th Dec 2016, 11:19 am	#5
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,340	Re: Marconiphone 4047 (C129 R) mid restoration....nearly there. Ah, now I can see it, it's a later version of the BSR Deck than I thought. You are correct in that the idler/rim contact is essential for accurate speed and pitch - but it also ensures enough turntable torque to switch off the mechanism which it should do. BTW, I can't see the centre stacking spindle? __________________ Edward.

8th Dec 2016, 3:58 pm	#6
sten969 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 8	Re: Marconiphone 4047 (C129 R) mid restoration....nearly there. Thanks Edward. That's a stock picture I grabbed from the internet - fortunately my turntable does have the spindle in place. That makes sense about needing enough torque for it to switch off. Having very lightly sanded and cleaned the idler wheel and inner rim of the platter with IA perhaps I now need to look at the motor?

8th Dec 2016, 7:41 pm	#7
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,340	Re: Marconiphone 4047 (C129 R) mid restoration....nearly there. There is unlikely to be nothing wrong with the motor. Also the spindle has no affect on the platter's torque. Are you saying you are using this without a spindle? For it to fully operate you need the longer autochanger spindle or for manual use, the short stub spinde - so how are you able to use it? __________________ Edward.

13th Dec 2016, 9:25 pm	#9
sten969 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 8	Re: Marconiphone 4047 (C129 R) mid restoration....nearly there. Edward, as mentioned in my last post I do indeed have the spindle in place and I was in fact agreeing with you about the torque point you made. I don't think I could be much clearer. I'll try to break it down again. 1) Turntable is working fine at all speeds. Pitch is fine also - no wow etc. 2) Spindle is in place. 3) Idler wheel has been lightly sanded. 4) IA has been applied to inner rim and rubber outer of idler wheel. 5) Problem is that the turntable doesn't auto switch off when arm returns. Many thanks.

15th Dec 2016, 9:52 pm	#10
kevin m Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Derbyshire, UK. Posts: 210	Re: Marconiphone 4047 (C129 R) mid restoration....nearly there. You will have dried up grease on the underside of the mechanism. but with the slight changes BSR made to the different models, its hard to say where the issue will actually be. Is there any way you can upload a picture of the underside of the mechanism. Kev

9th Mar 2017, 8:31 pm	#11
sten969 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 8	Re: Marconiphone 4047 (C129 R) mid restoration....nearly there. Thanks for the responses everyone. The problem cleared itself after a few hours of playing and now auto stops fine.