Please help me repair a Beogram 1202 lid - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

la-jetee · 27th Jun 2019, 10:10 am

Hi!

This is my first post so please forgive any netiquette faults!

I work as a volunteer in a Repair Cafe. A client recently brought in a Beolit 1202 turntable that wasn't working. I fixed the whole motor/arm combo and it is now working.

They also showed me the (half-disassembled) lid that they had (Pic 1). I (foolishly?) offered to try and fix that too. I find that there are two, handed, long (torsion bars?) (Pic 2) that, I guess, counterbalance the lid as it's being opened. I can't see how they fit. There is a clamp in the frame (Pic 3) that enables the bars to be inserted by sliding the pins in. They can be inserted in 'Pin up' or 'Pin down' mode. Which? Does Torsion bar A go left or right? How does the torsion bar fit into the end plate (Pic 4) And, finally, why are the little washers (Pic 5) - that do go on the torsion bars - strangely slotted. I'm puzzled! Can anyone help? Thank you very much.

George May

la-jetee · 27th Jun 2019, 8:38 pm

I now realise this product is called a Beogram not a Beolit!

Oops!

George May

fetteler · 28th Jun 2019, 12:10 am

I can't directly answer your questions but the service manual for the Beogram 1202 can be found here as a downloadable pdf.

http://beomanuals.com/manuals/Beogram/Beogram%201202/

Good luck,
Steve.

mickyfinn · 28th Jun 2019, 7:21 am

I also had one of these a few years ago with exactly the same lid issue. Previous owner had given up trying to fit the lid. I gave up too after deciding life was too short. Don't know whether its next owner succeeded or not. Seemed a stupid design to me.

Mick

la-jetee · 28th Jun 2019, 8:04 am

Thank you fetteler/Steve!

George May

Diabolical Artificer · 28th Jun 2019, 9:14 am

Pin A/B must locate in the perspex lid, are there holes on it? With things like this it's a matter of trying it every which way till they fit. Either that or chuck the springs in the bin, drill two holes and bolt it together.

Andy.

flyingtech55 · 28th Jun 2019, 9:52 am

Ah yes...I remember these. The first question is why is it in pieces in the first place. There was quite a lot of tension in the torsion springs and the usual reason that the lids were in bits was because something had broken. Back in the day we just ordered whatever was required from B&O and put it back together. They were very fiddly to re-assemble because of the 'static' tension in the torsion springs even when the lid was open. The design is (as with most B&O designs) actually quite logical. However, it helps enormously if you've seen one built up and working rather than being presented with a kit of parts which you've not seen built up.

Bear in mind that I haven't seen one of these for the better part of thirty years so I'm working from memory.

The first thing to do is to assemble the lid without the springs and make sure it works without the tension of the springs. If it doesn't stay together or comes apart just opening and closing then something is worn or broken and there's no chance it'll stay together under spring tension.

If all is well, dismantle it as far as you need to fit the springs. As far as I remember the long legs go at the hinge end of the lid. There's something at the back of my mind the there's a sort of groove that the end of the lid hinges that the leg runs in. The short legs bolt to the static part of the lid. The grooved washers act as clamps to keep the torsion bars against the the frame when under tension. As far as I remember, I used to engage the long legs in hinge and leave the short ends free. In the free state the short legs will be well past 90 degrees from the flat position. You then have to 'twist' or to use the technical term 'load up' the springs one at a time and secure them one at a time to the back of the lid. This takes quite a lot of effort to achieve. Don't be tempted to permanently 'twist' the torsion springs to make it easier as the lid won't then stay open. Some customers used to do that and the only option was to then order up new springs.

The only note of caution I will add, is the this unit is now about fifty years old and the plastics will now be pretty brittle and a common failure mode back in the day was that one or other of the plastic hinge lugs would break off the lid. This writes the lid off. Again, back in the day we just ordered a new lid...this now not an option. There is a lot of tension in the torsion bars when the thing is working correctly and my fear is that the plastic may not be up to it now. Unfortunately, the springs hold the hinges of the lid in place in the frame so, on reflection, some compromise may necessary in the spring tension.

I could probably still remember how to put this together if I had it in front of me but I live too far away for that to be practical but do have a good look to try and see why it is in pieces in the first place. These didn't just fall apart. There is/was usually a reason than they arrive(d) at the workshop in bits.

HTH

Tim

flyingtech55 · 28th Jun 2019, 10:24 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diabolical Artificer

Either that or chuck the springs in the bin, drill two holes and bolt it together.

Andy.

You can't just bolt it together. The hinge line is the top end of the lid frame and the two plastic lugs you can see in the picture slide within 'pockets' in the frame. The geometry is quite critical. The only way to bolt it together would be to fit hinges to the top of the lid and frame. It would look pretty unsightly. The tension of the torsion bars hold the lid into the frame. You can just see the semicircular cutouts in the legs of the lid. These engage with pins/axles in the top of the frame while the torsion bars hold the lid up and in engagement with these pins allowing the lid to rotate against the top edge of the frame. The remainder of the 'ears' provide lateral location for the lid as it rotates. It was a pretty clever and elegant design...I can't remember now who designed it. It's been a long time since I worked on B&O equipment apart from my own couple of items (occasionally).

Tim

flyingtech55 · 28th Jun 2019, 10:35 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by la-jetee

I now realise this product is called a Beogram not a Beolit!

Oops!

George May

The Beolits were portable radios designed by Jacob Jensen. Very nice radios they were too. The FM band was tuned by varicap diodes, hence they had a 15V battery (ISTR) in them to provide the tuning voltage.

Tim

TonyDuell · 28th Jun 2019, 5:49 pm

I thought all B&O portable radios were 'Beolit'. Not all of them had FM band or varicap tuning though.

Beogram was turntables and CD players
Beocord was tape recorders (reel-to-reel and cassette)
Beomaster was tuner-amplifiers
Beolab (?) was loudspeaker cabinets

flyingtech55 · 28th Jun 2019, 9:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingtech55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diabolical Artificer

Either that or chuck the springs in the bin, drill two holes and bolt it together.

Andy.

The hinge line is the top end of the lid frame

Tim

What I meant to say was.....

The hinge line is the top edge of the lid frame.......

Tim

flyingtech55 · 28th Jun 2019, 10:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyDuell

I thought all B&O portable radios were 'Beolit'. Not all of them had FM band or varicap tuning though.

Beogram was turntables and CD players
Beocord was tape recorders (reel-to-reel and cassette)
Beomaster was tuner-amplifiers
Beolab (?) was loudspeaker cabinets

You are of course correct. I was thinking of the Beolit 600s and 700s which were/are absolutely gorgeous and design classics. I used to repair these but, at the time, couldn't possibly afford to own one.

The Beolab speakers are active speakers...check out the price of the Beolab 90,,,aaarghhh

The Beovox speakers are the 'normal' passive speakers.

The Beocentres were basically music centres. We sold quite a few Beocentre 7000 and 7700. They were quite popular things. The Beocentre 2000 was of course horrid and not in the least bit a 'proper' B&O. However we sold quite a few...sadly!

Then there were the Beovision TV sets. I own a Beovision 5502 which is still in use today.

Beocords were also VCRs as typified by the Beocord V8802 which was a Philips V2000 machine. I also had one of these but ended up giving it away as I couldn't be bothered repairing it ....again.

Cheers

Tim

Max Ripple · 29th Jun 2019, 10:29 am

This was one of those jobs that could be guaranteed to test your temper!!!
Looking at your photo's,nothing seems to be broken,so it could just be a reassembly task?
I too have a copy of the service manual,which is vague about this task,but does have an exploded view of the lid components.It also shows use of a service tool to retain the torsion rod's in position while fitting!!! I don't remember ever seeing this tool,praps that's where I went wrong?PM me if you'd like the manual sent via the ether in due course?
Nick

vinrads · 29th Jun 2019, 11:16 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickyfinn

I also had one of these a few years ago with exactly the same lid issue. Previous owner had given up trying to fit the lid. I gave up too after deciding life was too short. Don't know whether its next owner succeeded or not. Seemed a stupid design to me.

Mick

Same here ,good luck with it Mick.

la-jetee · 30th Jun 2019, 12:03 pm

Dear All

Thanks a lot for your advice.

Based on what you've told me I'll see how I get on. If I'm successful I'll write it up and post it here.

George May

la-jetee · 3rd Jul 2019, 5:38 pm

I said I'd write it up if it went well. It didn't, but in case anyone gets here this may help them.

The reason the client had brought the lid in was that a hinge lug had broken. I made up a new lug out of paxolin, added a couple of small copper dowels and glued it together with an epoxy resin (Pic 1). So far, so good.

The lid now fitted in the cover OK, though to get it in I had to apply a slight pressure to the cover to ease the lid locating holes past their pivot pins (Pic 2). Here came the first problem. The right angle bend in the cover was made by cutting a deep Vee-shaped notch almost to the far side of the long edge and then bending it through 90 degrees. This is a cheap manufacturing gambit and is often used e.g. in oven door handles. As well as being cheap it is not very strong and it (actually 'they' - the notches at both ends) broke along the notch lines. I managed to repair them using a stronger epoxy resin (JB Weld)(Pic 3).

I now tried inserting the springs that counterbalance the lid in any position. I discovered how to fit them (Pic 4 and Pic 5). As others have pointed out the central 'pins' on the springs have to be rotated quite a lot (to slide the ends into the 'slots in Pic 5). The springs seemed to put a huge pressure on the hinges and the repaired hinge broke repeatedly and I had to remake it several times.

I decided that it would be best to leave the springs off and told the client they'd have to hold the lid all the time.

Not a great success.

George May

paulsherwin · 3rd Jul 2019, 6:20 pm

Lots of plinth hinge mechanisms are now giving trouble, not only on Beograms, and they are difficult to repair. The easiest solution is to dispense with the plinth cover altogether, though this does mean the deck will get dusty and need regular cleaning. A lot of Perspex covers are getting pretty manky now though, after 50 years of UV radiation and inept cleaning.

27th Jun 2019, 10:10 am	#1
la-jetee Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Bath and North East Somerset, UK. Posts: 6	Please help me repair a Beogram 1202 lid Hi! This is my first post so please forgive any netiquette faults! I work as a volunteer in a Repair Cafe. A client recently brought in a Beolit 1202 turntable that wasn't working. I fixed the whole motor/arm combo and it is now working. They also showed me the (half-disassembled) lid that they had (Pic 1). I (foolishly?) offered to try and fix that too. I find that there are two, handed, long (torsion bars?) (Pic 2) that, I guess, counterbalance the lid as it's being opened. I can't see how they fit. There is a clamp in the frame (Pic 3) that enables the bars to be inserted by sliding the pins in. They can be inserted in 'Pin up' or 'Pin down' mode. Which? Does Torsion bar A go left or right? How does the torsion bar fit into the end plate (Pic 4) And, finally, why are the little washers (Pic 5) - that do go on the torsion bars - strangely slotted. I'm puzzled! Can anyone help? Thank you very much. George May Attached Thumbnails

27th Jun 2019, 8:38 pm	#2
la-jetee Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Bath and North East Somerset, UK. Posts: 6	Re: Please help me repair a Beolit 1202 lid I now realise this product is called a Beogram not a Beolit! Oops! George May

28th Jun 2019, 12:10 am	#3
fetteler Octode Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK. Posts: 1,474	Re: Please help me repair a Beogram 1202 lid I can't directly answer your questions but the service manual for the Beogram 1202 can be found here as a downloadable pdf. http://beomanuals.com/manuals/Beogram/Beogram%201202/ Good luck, Steve. __________________ Those who lack imagination cannot imagine what is lacking...

28th Jun 2019, 7:21 am	#4
mickyfinn Hexode Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Scarborough, North Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 473	Re: Please help me repair a Beogram 1202 lid I also had one of these a few years ago with exactly the same lid issue. Previous owner had given up trying to fit the lid. I gave up too after deciding life was too short. Don't know whether its next owner succeeded or not. Seemed a stupid design to me. Mick

28th Jun 2019, 8:04 am	#5
la-jetee Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Bath and North East Somerset, UK. Posts: 6	Re: Please help me repair a Beogram 1202 lid Thank you fetteler/Steve! George May

28th Jun 2019, 9:14 am	#6
Diabolical Artificer Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sleaford, Lincs. UK. Posts: 7,657	Re: Please help me repair a Beogram 1202 lid Pin A/B must locate in the perspex lid, are there holes on it? With things like this it's a matter of trying it every which way till they fit. Either that or chuck the springs in the bin, drill two holes and bolt it together. Andy. __________________ Curiosity hasn't killed this cat...so far.

28th Jun 2019, 9:52 am	#7
flyingtech55 Octode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ayrshire, UK. Posts: 1,096	Re: Please help me repair a Beogram 1202 lid Ah yes...I remember these. The first question is why is it in pieces in the first place. There was quite a lot of tension in the torsion springs and the usual reason that the lids were in bits was because something had broken. Back in the day we just ordered whatever was required from B&O and put it back together. They were very fiddly to re-assemble because of the 'static' tension in the torsion springs even when the lid was open. The design is (as with most B&O designs) actually quite logical. However, it helps enormously if you've seen one built up and working rather than being presented with a kit of parts which you've not seen built up. Bear in mind that I haven't seen one of these for the better part of thirty years so I'm working from memory. The first thing to do is to assemble the lid without the springs and make sure it works without the tension of the springs. If it doesn't stay together or comes apart just opening and closing then something is worn or broken and there's no chance it'll stay together under spring tension. If all is well, dismantle it as far as you need to fit the springs. As far as I remember the long legs go at the hinge end of the lid. There's something at the back of my mind the there's a sort of groove that the end of the lid hinges that the leg runs in. The short legs bolt to the static part of the lid. The grooved washers act as clamps to keep the torsion bars against the the frame when under tension. As far as I remember, I used to engage the long legs in hinge and leave the short ends free. In the free state the short legs will be well past 90 degrees from the flat position. You then have to 'twist' or to use the technical term 'load up' the springs one at a time and secure them one at a time to the back of the lid. This takes quite a lot of effort to achieve. Don't be tempted to permanently 'twist' the torsion springs to make it easier as the lid won't then stay open. Some customers used to do that and the only option was to then order up new springs. The only note of caution I will add, is the this unit is now about fifty years old and the plastics will now be pretty brittle and a common failure mode back in the day was that one or other of the plastic hinge lugs would break off the lid. This writes the lid off. Again, back in the day we just ordered a new lid...this now not an option. There is a lot of tension in the torsion bars when the thing is working correctly and my fear is that the plastic may not be up to it now. Unfortunately, the springs hold the hinges of the lid in place in the frame so, on reflection, some compromise may necessary in the spring tension. I could probably still remember how to put this together if I had it in front of me but I live too far away for that to be practical but do have a good look to try and see why it is in pieces in the first place. These didn't just fall apart. There is/was usually a reason than they arrive(d) at the workshop in bits. HTH Tim __________________ All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

28th Jun 2019, 5:49 pm	#10
TonyDuell Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK. Posts: 5,208	Re: Please help me repair a Beogram 1202 lid I thought all B&O portable radios were 'Beolit'. Not all of them had FM band or varicap tuning though. Beogram was turntables and CD players Beocord was tape recorders (reel-to-reel and cassette) Beomaster was tuner-amplifiers Beolab (?) was loudspeaker cabinets

29th Jun 2019, 10:29 am	#13
Max Ripple Pentode Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Near Coventry, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 186	Re: Please help me repair a Beogram 1202 lid This was one of those jobs that could be guaranteed to test your temper!!! Looking at your photo's,nothing seems to be broken,so it could just be a reassembly task? I too have a copy of the service manual,which is vague about this task,but does have an exploded view of the lid components.It also shows use of a service tool to retain the torsion rod's in position while fitting!!! I don't remember ever seeing this tool,praps that's where I went wrong?PM me if you'd like the manual sent via the ether in due course? Nick

30th Jun 2019, 12:03 pm	#15
la-jetee Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Bath and North East Somerset, UK. Posts: 6	Re: Please help me repair a Beogram 1202 lid Dear All Thanks a lot for your advice. Based on what you've told me I'll see how I get on. If I'm successful I'll write it up and post it here. George May

3rd Jul 2019, 5:38 pm	#16
la-jetee Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Bath and North East Somerset, UK. Posts: 6	I said I'd write it up if it went well. It didn't, but in case anyone gets here this may help them. The reason the client had brought the lid in was that a hinge lug had broken. I made up a new lug out of paxolin, added a couple of small copper dowels and glued it together with an epoxy resin (Pic 1). So far, so good. The lid now fitted in the cover OK, though to get it in I had to apply a slight pressure to the cover to ease the lid locating holes past their pivot pins (Pic 2). Here came the first problem. The right angle bend in the cover was made by cutting a deep Vee-shaped notch almost to the far side of the long edge and then bending it through 90 degrees. This is a cheap manufacturing gambit and is often used e.g. in oven door handles. As well as being cheap it is not very strong and it (actually 'they' - the notches at both ends) broke along the notch lines. I managed to repair them using a stronger epoxy resin (JB Weld)(Pic 3). I now tried inserting the springs that counterbalance the lid in any position. I discovered how to fit them (Pic 4 and Pic 5). As others have pointed out the central 'pins' on the springs have to be rotated quite a lot (to slide the ends into the 'slots in Pic 5). The springs seemed to put a huge pressure on the hinges and the repaired hinge broke repeatedly and I had to remake it several times. I decided that it would be best to leave the springs off and told the client they'd have to hold the lid all the time. Not a great success. George May Attached Thumbnails

3rd Jul 2019, 6:20 pm	#17
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,932	Re: Please help me repair a Beogram 1202 lid Lots of plinth hinge mechanisms are now giving trouble, not only on Beograms, and they are difficult to repair. The easiest solution is to dispense with the plinth cover altogether, though this does mean the deck will get dusty and need regular cleaning. A lot of Perspex covers are getting pretty manky now though, after 50 years of UV radiation and inept cleaning.