Electric Gramophone issue - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Bongo 78 · 25th Nov 2021, 9:03 pm

Hi everyone
1st post so please be gentle , I own a Garrard RC65 and a Columbia 228R Electric Gramophone both have a Gramophone style head and use steel needles , i play both through a Tripeltone Convertible 3 amp and corner speaker , but ive noticed that when using the Columbia its so much quieter than the Garrard in fact i have to turn the amp full bung to get a half decent sound .......so at last my question is the output from these similar machines that different ? both use the same primitive magnet needle combination

Edward Huggins · 26th Nov 2021, 9:47 am

There is bound to be some variation in output between these 2 very old heads. Bear in mind that the Garrard RC65 will be "newer" and so may account for its stronger output. In some ways you are lucky to get a usable output from either using this relatively low-gain amplifier.
BTW I assume you are only using one channel of your Tripletone Convertible 3 driving the speaker.. If so, do ensure that other channel is sutably loaded to avoid permanent damage to it.

RojDW48 · 26th Nov 2021, 12:48 pm

Wasn't the Tripletone Convertible a mono amp? The convertible bit being the ability to gang the controls through holes in the chassis to another mono amp to get stereo? Nice little things.

Which corner speaker are you using?

RojDW48 · 26th Nov 2021, 1:05 pm

Maybe the material of the armature in the pick up head has crystalised over the years in the quieter one. I have replaced a couple where the material has hardened so much it's like china !

Techman · 26th Nov 2021, 3:18 pm

You have to make sure that the rubber parts of the pickup head are in good condition, as they'll spoil records if they're not due to lack of compliance. I'd be particularly suspicious of the quieter one. Virtually all those magnetic heads of that type need overhauling by now - don't damage your records with them!

B.Taylor · 27th Nov 2021, 3:24 pm

I have replaced the rubber damping pad in similar heads with a piece of kitchen rubber glove cut to size. Works really well.

Bill

Bongo 78 · 27th Nov 2021, 9:14 pm

Hi and thanks for all your replies so to all answer them all.
Edward the Tripletone is a Mono amp so no worries there thanks
rojDW48 I suspect the rubber has hardened , i also heard the rubbers can be replaced by using elastic bands but to be honest im not sure what part im replacing or exactly where they are in the head
Techman so you think the output would be less if the rubber was hardened ?

I use a Pye Cantata Type HF12/SC corner speaker and i love it it sounds great with my 78s

Bongo 78 · 29th Nov 2021, 12:50 pm

Ok so both heads are off and taken apart firstly im a little confused see attached picture from Columbia 228 , armature and piece that hold armature in position rubber seems fine very soft and pliable this is a horseshoe style magnet arrangement ... i though i was replacing rubber on edges of coil thats sits between magnets ? at least thats what it looks like on Collaro head that im doing the same job ........hope that makes sense

25th Nov 2021, 9:03 pm	#1
Bongo 78 Diode Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK. Posts: 3	Electric Gramophone issue Hi everyone 1st post so please be gentle , I own a Garrard RC65 and a Columbia 228R Electric Gramophone both have a Gramophone style head and use steel needles , i play both through a Tripeltone Convertible 3 amp and corner speaker , but ive noticed that when using the Columbia its so much quieter than the Garrard in fact i have to turn the amp full bung to get a half decent sound .......so at last my question is the output from these similar machines that different ? both use the same primitive magnet needle combination

26th Nov 2021, 9:47 am	#2
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Electric Gramophone issue There is bound to be some variation in output between these 2 very old heads. Bear in mind that the Garrard RC65 will be "newer" and so may account for its stronger output. In some ways you are lucky to get a usable output from either using this relatively low-gain amplifier. BTW I assume you are only using one channel of your Tripletone Convertible 3 driving the speaker.. If so, do ensure that other channel is sutably loaded to avoid permanent damage to it. __________________ Edward.

26th Nov 2021, 12:48 pm	#3
RojDW48 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 2,074	Re: Electric Gramophone issue Wasn't the Tripletone Convertible a mono amp? The convertible bit being the ability to gang the controls through holes in the chassis to another mono amp to get stereo? Nice little things. Which corner speaker are you using? __________________ '....don't go mistaking Paradise for that home across the road!' (Bob Dylan)

26th Nov 2021, 1:05 pm	#4
RojDW48 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 2,074	Re: Electric Gramophone issue Maybe the material of the armature in the pick up head has crystalised over the years in the quieter one. I have replaced a couple where the material has hardened so much it's like china ! __________________ '....don't go mistaking Paradise for that home across the road!' (Bob Dylan)

26th Nov 2021, 3:18 pm	#5
Techman Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 5,000	Re: Electric Gramophone issue You have to make sure that the rubber parts of the pickup head are in good condition, as they'll spoil records if they're not due to lack of compliance. I'd be particularly suspicious of the quieter one. Virtually all those magnetic heads of that type need overhauling by now - don't damage your records with them!

27th Nov 2021, 3:24 pm	#6
B.Taylor Tetrode Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, UK. Posts: 82	Re: Electric Gramophone issue I have replaced the rubber damping pad in similar heads with a piece of kitchen rubber glove cut to size. Works really well. Bill

27th Nov 2021, 9:14 pm	#7
Bongo 78 Diode Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK. Posts: 3	Re: Electric Gramophone issue Hi and thanks for all your replies so to all answer them all. Edward the Tripletone is a Mono amp so no worries there thanks rojDW48 I suspect the rubber has hardened , i also heard the rubbers can be replaced by using elastic bands but to be honest im not sure what part im replacing or exactly where they are in the head Techman so you think the output would be less if the rubber was hardened ? I use a Pye Cantata Type HF12/SC corner speaker and i love it it sounds great with my 78s

29th Nov 2021, 12:50 pm	#8
Bongo 78 Diode Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK. Posts: 3	Re: Electric Gramophone issue Ok so both heads are off and taken apart firstly im a little confused see attached picture from Columbia 228 , armature and piece that hold armature in position rubber seems fine very soft and pliable this is a horseshoe style magnet arrangement ... i though i was replacing rubber on edges of coil thats sits between magnets ? at least thats what it looks like on Collaro head that im doing the same job ........hope that makes sense Attached Thumbnails