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Old 27th May 2018, 9:22 am   #1
'LIVEWIRE?'
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Exclamation Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoration sections

I hope I'm permitted to ask this question, but I've often wondered why replies, even those along the lines of either 'O.K. joeblogs, Thanks', or 'joeblogs you have a PM' in the Repair & Restoration sections have to be approved by a moderator before they are shown. To me, the former is only showing courtesy to 'joeblogs' for answering whatever the original request may have been.
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Old 27th May 2018, 9:48 am   #2
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

All posts in those sections are pre-moderated because it is the only way we can keep the threads on-topic.

People should only reply if they can offer the service wanted or are interested in the service wanted, and this is stated in the sticky threads in the sections. However we get lots of replies discussing details of the fault and what the cause may be etc. By having full pre-moderation we can delete them without them appearing.

These are the sticky threads that nobody reads:

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=101945
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=101946

The software doesn't read or understand the posts, so it doesn't know the difference between "you have a PM" and "have you checked C17?". So either all replies or no replies are pre-moderated, and in those sections it's all replies.

If we didn't pre-moderate those sections the only other option would be to get rid of them, as allowing normal posting would cause us far too much work (we know from experience when they were created).
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Old 27th May 2018, 12:02 pm   #3
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

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Originally Posted by Paul Stenning View Post

Have you ever paused to ask yourself why nobody reads those threads? I suspect it's because a lot of members reply to threads in those sections directly from the forum front page and never see those threads. I made a suggestion as to how this could be addressed, but never even received the courtesy of an acknowledgement.
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Old 27th May 2018, 2:34 pm   #4
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

Can you be more specific please. The moderators have spent a great deal of time searching emails and PM's, but can find nothing from you.
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Old 27th May 2018, 3:11 pm   #5
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

I filled out a 'contact us' feedback form some time ago, suggesting that:

1. It would be courteous to members to inform them when and why a post of theirs has been deleted. I'm sure some pro-formas could be easily set up. It would undoubtedly reduce the number of repeat offences and reduce confusion as to where messages have gone, not to mention increasing goodwill.

2. A prominent banner could be displayed at the top of threads in the relevant forums reminding users to read the pertinent rules. A link to them would be handy.
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Old 27th May 2018, 4:21 pm   #6
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

I [mistakenly] thought the content of my post might have been a "breach" recently [Grundig 210] but when I pm'd a Mod this "suspend" process was courteously explained to me and in fact, it had already gone through anyway! Nothing further from the OP of course [like "thanks" for example!]

However the use of Banners for Beginners or Newcomers might perhaps assist. [I've suggested it myself in the past]. This COULD help people to get to where they want or NEED to be. On the other hand [as Mods have previously pointed out] some OP's seem oblivious to certain types of help whatever you do. Often, they just ask more questions-usually in an opposite directionThey don't seem to "get it!". Maybe they have this in common with [some] Forum members who favour a more or less "open door" policy but it is others, especially the Mods, who have to cope with what seems to be an increasingly fractious problem. Some postings would try the patience of a Saint This may be a little different to
Live Wire's question but I think it's very much re-lated.

I fear that an OP might well do something really ill-advised and dangerous that could have a consequence for everyone here, while the individual disappears! I've been trying to point out aspects of this change in Forum postings for a while as I don't think it's at all equitable. I note that Mods do now seem to try and direct OP's straight to a particular "starter sticky" that is [effectively] a "How To" thread.... right away. You'd expect people to be delighted but rarely does the OP even seem to comment on this and simply carries on as before.

One member wisely pointed out recently that the Form is not an "Instant Fix Resource" [for which I thank him-that's the phrase I was after]. You really have to know the difference first-the technical knowledge is much easier by comparison.

Dave

Mods please feel free to intercept this post for consideration if that helps!

Last edited by dave walsh; 27th May 2018 at 4:37 pm.
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Old 27th May 2018, 5:42 pm   #7
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

All new members receive a welcome PM and email which includes a link to the Novice's Guide To Using The Forums thread, but we still receive a few messages each week from new members who cannot work out how to post a thread.

All new members are required to agree to the forum rules during the sign-up process, with a very clear prominent link, yet it is clear that some don't read them.

The same is likely to apply with banners all over the place. As they say "you can lead a horse to water...".

We do try to steer people to existing threads and posts of relevance too, but as Dave noted this seems to go unnoticed. Some people are just looking for an easy "quick fix" solution, and as we know that often isn't possible.

All we can really do is have the information available and hope that at least some people are reading it. We don't know how much worse things would be if the information wasn't there, and don't intend to try and find out! Obviously as moderators we mainly deal with the minority of posts and members that cause problem, rather than the majority of problem-free posts and members.
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Old 27th May 2018, 6:58 pm   #8
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

I think the point I was making has been completely missed here, and relates to the specific rules applying to the "Repair and Restoration Services Wanted" section, specifically those contained in the post to which you linked earlier, Paul. These rules, which seem to result in posts being deleted without notice by moderators, are not contained or referenced in the 'Forum Rules' page. Unless you go into the index page of "Repair and Restoration Services Wanted" you will never see the additional rules post, and this is quite a likely scenario if you should enter a thread via the main index page. It is therefore quite understandable that folk wind up with posts being deleted. The fact that the posts are deleted silently seems to add insult to injury.
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Old 27th May 2018, 7:09 pm   #9
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

Posts in those sections are not deleted. They may not be approved, but that's something different. I believe that when posting in those sections a warning is displayed saying your post is awaiting approval
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Old 27th May 2018, 7:13 pm   #10
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Station X View Post
Posts in those sections are not deleted. They may not be approved, but that's something different. I believe that when posting I'm those sections a warning is displayed saying your post is awaiting approval
My experience is different. My one post to that section disappeared without trace.
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Old 27th May 2018, 7:22 pm   #11
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

The post you refer to was in this thread:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=145457

It was not approved because you were not offering a repair service. No other member of the forums would ever have seen it, because it was never visible to them.
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Old 27th May 2018, 7:56 pm   #12
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Station X View Post
The post you refer to was in this thread:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=145457

It was not approved because you were not offering a repair service. No other member of the forums would ever have seen it, because it was never visible to them.
You agree then, that it was silently deleted.
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Old 27th May 2018, 8:43 pm   #13
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

My original Grundig post was "silently suspended" AG or it looked like that at first. However I silently pm'd and got a silent response that explained things [entirely to my satisfaction]. I don't think I was that far off your original point in my post today, either, although I did say that I felt the rest of today's comment was a related matter and I'd come up with ideas myself similar to yours.

If your post didn't really qualify in the first place [the main point] then surely it wasn't really deleted [except in the most extreme technical interpretation] As the Mods team say, it's not always that easy and there has to be some filtering but what's the alternative Suggested solutions can simply provoke other problems as indicated.

Either way it's not personal [and I say that as someone who's had his own "moments of moderation" on the Forum]. I'm sorry it's been a bad experience for you but I believe that there are much more serious things to worry about [like the sort of behaviours I'd referred to previously] if the general good humour and tolerance here is to be maintained. Don't "mirror" the style of some of the newer enquiries please. It just becomes relentless!

Best Wishes,

Dave W

Last edited by dave walsh; 27th May 2018 at 8:53 pm.
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Old 27th May 2018, 9:04 pm   #14
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

Dave, I have tried to offer reasonable suggestions as to how the member experience might be improved in relation to these issues, and explanations as to why members might quite unwittingly fall foul of certain rules. Sadly, it seems these points have fallen on deaf ears.

As far as whether or not a post has been deleted, let's not descend into semantics. If a user hits the 'post' button and subsequently comes back to find no trace of the post and no message from a mod explaining why, then to all intents and purposes that post was silently deleted.
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Old 28th May 2018, 12:45 am   #15
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

Indeed lets not descend into the pit my friend. "When in hole stop digging I understand what you are trying to say and I do hope that you have a sense of humour. Things change but not so quickly. It's surely not the end of the world and you have had an explanation like me

I'm not choosing to defend the Mods but what I don't know is why it's so important to you at this moment in time? Please let your grievance alone-it will eat you up and leave you fairly desolate! The site is run by human "beans". You seem to be a "proper chap" as we say in the north. I bend over backwards to help and retain people but in the "final end" [Dylan] they often seem to have other issues going on. Believe it or not, I have actually persuaded some individuals to stay on the site, join the BVWS, go to Golborne etc-it's really just a simple misconception sometimes.

A few years ago, in a desperately hot summer, someone broke into a thread discussion with "Are you all talking about me?", with absolutely no reason at all. It was actually the start of the current sort of "new poster" situation but we didn't know it. This person was already an established member with an advanced technical background. I said that it clearly wasn't about them at all, it was a long hot day and to just leave it. That person is still here and highly valued for the advice given.

What do YOU think [with your strong opinions] about new entrants who don't want to bother learning the basics and don't care if they can get themselves personal tuition, step by step, based on apologetic gratitude. Is it a balance between needs and wants? Should everyone demand that service, should I?
Who will provide it? Is it fair to anyone at all? There's another issue for you!

Pour yourself a drink and watch tonight's Jonathan Meades program on BBC4. That would be my advice.

Also do have a look at my comments on the recent "Wrong Era" record player thread. I don't seek any of this out honestly!
As Paul Stenning said earlier-horses can't be made to drink! How much more could any of us have reasonably done in the circumstance? Should we do anything? Are we fools? Grown up questions I think!

Cheers ,

Dave

Last edited by dave walsh; 28th May 2018 at 1:00 am.
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Old 28th May 2018, 1:18 am   #16
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

Sorry Steve, I've been out for the evening. I deleted your post because, as previously explained, it didn't offer the assistance that the poster was asking for. As you have raised the issue, I've now silently approved it, but I can't see how it constitutes a reason for people not reading threads, sticky or otherwise.
You're in good company though, a good percentage of members have had posts deleted in this section. Posters here are after actual help, not suggestions or encouragement, however well meaning (and most of our members are just that)
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Old 28th May 2018, 1:30 am   #17
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

Thanks Bill. As l'd said, I thought my qwn post might have been deleted but got it wrong. It WAS, though, direct advice to the OP, even if, apparently, not appreciated!

Dave W
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Old 28th May 2018, 2:52 am   #18
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

I’ve got a confession to make!

Even though I’m familiar with the rules, I actually posted a suggestion/advise type post in that section by mistake a few weeks ago. I had been looking down the main page of the forum and clicked on the thread title from the home page. Having read the posters request, I posted an alternative suggestion to that which the poster was asking. The very instant I pressed the ‘submit’ button and the post disappeared with the ‘awaiting approval’ message appearing, I realised what I’d done. I was probably half asleep and not paying attention and just forgot which section I was in. I actually felt a bit daft because I know the rules governing that section and have seen at least one other thread started where a long standing poster has asked why their post had disappeared. I expected to see my post count go down by one post due to the post being deleted, but it’s obviously as Graham has said, in that the post just lurks somewhere as I noted that my post count remained the same. Although I admit that certain things have slightly irritated me in times past, I wasn’t in the slightest annoyed with the post disappearing as it was my mistake and I should have been paying better attention, so no expected explanation needed.

The chap who had posted the request had already got a thread running in another section regarding the problem he was having, so I thought about mentioning my suggestion in this other thread, but while I was thinking about this, the problem he was having was resolved. There is the other option of sending the person a PM with the suggestion, however, there’s then the slight risk that the person may be annoyed by receiving an unwarranted PM suggesting something other than what they requested in the actual post.

I think that more of a possible problem with that section would be if a rather less competent person wanting to make a few bob on the side, were to offer their services and then mess up the requesters equipment, their skills and ability being shown in their previous threads and posts on the forum. I think that could potentially be a bit of a difficult one to deal with, in fact I’m not sure how you would deal with something like that.
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Old 28th May 2018, 8:47 am   #19
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

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Originally Posted by AC/HL View Post
Sorry Steve, I've been out for the evening. I deleted your post because, as previously explained, it didn't offer the assistance that the poster was asking for. As you have raised the issue, I've now silently approved it, but I can't see how it constitutes a reason for people not reading threads, sticky or otherwise.
You're in good company though, a good percentage of members have had posts deleted in this section. Posters here are after actual help, not suggestions or encouragement, however well meaning (and most of our members are just that)
I have absolutely no gripe with you not approving my post. You were correct in your action. My post did not meet the rules and contained nothing of any importance at all. My point is not about that, though.

I almost feel like typing this with caps lock on in the hope that someone will understand if I shout loud enough

1. Like all good members, I read the forum rules when I joined.

2. When my post failed to appear, I re-read the forum rules. There is a handy link just up there ---^ labelled "Forum Rules". I just re-read them again. The rule I broke is not in there. There is not even a statement to the effect that other rules specific to certain sections may be contained in sticky posts, or even on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard.”

3. Because the section-specific rules were contained in a sticky post, I never saw them. Not because I deliberately negelected to read them, but because I was totally oblivious to their presence. I never visited the section index as I had no clue that it could be important to do so.

4. Consequently, I was baffled as to the non-appearance of my post.

My suggestions are:

1. Please put all important rules in one place.

2. For pre-moderated sections, please consider informing the member why a post was not approved.
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Old 28th May 2018, 9:23 am   #20
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Default Re: Acknowledging replies in 'Repair & restoratiion sections

Might be wrong but I get the impression that the forum rule under discussion is in the section it's in because that whole section at the time of its inclusion was a new trial to see how the general response to that new section turned out.

If it's possible to do so, all forum rules in one place makes logical sense to me.

Lawrence.
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