Historical accuracy in films - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Lee de Forest · 10th Jan 2010, 11:23 am

I watched an very good film last night "Max Manus - Man of War" based on the true story of the leader of the 'Oslo Gang' resistance during WWII.
One scene during the film is set in a Swedish hotel room and shows Max switching a radio on. The sound people then have music coming out of the radio the instant the switch is clicked on. I would have expected some time to allow the set to warm up! Does this indicate that people have forgot that it takes time for valve sets to warm up or was it done to allow the scene to flow better (it was a romantic moment and I think the ambiance might have been lost If Max had spent several minutes playing with the radio and waiting for it to warm up).

Ricardo · 10th Jan 2010, 11:45 am

Lee,

I would probably agree with your comment about historical accuracy if the set was an AC powered set where the HT needs to rise and valves warm up.

However if it was an early battery powered set then yes the sound output can happen almost immediately it is switched on.

Regards,

Richard

wireful3 · 10th Jan 2010, 12:37 pm

Lee I think your reason is very sound.
It is easy to forget that individual shots in a film are only several seconds long. So the time taken for a set to warm up would seem like an eternity. In the circumstances if the set is of the right period I suppose that must be good enough.

I had a mains set from the mid 30s, advertised as being rapid warm up and this seemed quite slow to me but I never timed it - probably about half a minute - I have often wondered what was the accepted time in those days.

Peter.N. · 10th Jan 2010, 1:23 pm

Perhaps it was in 'standby'

chipp1968 · 10th Jan 2010, 1:24 pm

They always get sets wrong in films, mostly too modern for the period which irritates me no end! As said Battery sets come on straight away , but you would have thought at least a couple of seconds gap would give some impression in the film.
I find sets differ greatly in warm up times , some come on very quickly others not. AC/DC sets seams to be the slowest

Station X · 10th Jan 2010, 1:35 pm

In the film version of Dad's Army members of the platoon go into a radio shop to listen to an announcement on the radio. The shop owner turns on a set and tells them that they must wait for it to warm up. Some films do get it right.

Films and TV dramas are full of historical inaccurracies, many of which are only noticed by "anoraks" like us. It shouldn't spoil our enjoyment of them though. If it does reach for the off switch or remote.

russell_w_b · 10th Jan 2010, 1:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Station X

In the film version of Dad's Army members of the platoon go into a radio shop to listen to an announcement on the radio. The shop owner turns on a set and tells them that they must wait for it to warm up.

However... On the very first episode of 'Dad's Army', Mainwaring turns on his set in his Bank-Manager's office to hear Anthony Eden's call, and the set bursts into life with loud hum straight away! He thumps it and, instantly, Eden booms out.

It was the 'Friedland' plastic door-bell push evident in the film 'Battle of Britain' that riled me and set me down the anorak-road, I'm afraid; and don't even think of getting me started on 'Foyle's War'!

A producer once admitted, when questioned about contemporaneous 'howlers' in 'Heartbeat' that they didn't always get things right, and the general aim was a sort of 'hazy' evocation of the period. Not good enough - Grrr!!

David G4EBT · 10th Jan 2010, 2:29 pm

There was a TV prog about WW2 recently which featured Chamberlain's prounouncement that we were at war with Germany. The family were listening intently, huddled around a Bush DAC90A, c 1948!

The DAC90A and TR82D seem the favoured sets to use as props in films and TV progs, regardless of whether they'd been invented in the era depicted. In an episode of Heartbeat, the police were even using a Trio Shortwave Receiver to transmit on.
Quite a feat - "calling all cars"

No wonder Greegrass ran rings around them!

Drifting off topic, but on a similat theme of lack of authenticity, it's the same with Morse code - often what is being heard or sent in war films and the like bears no resemblance to what the message purports to say. However, sometimes they get it right - anyone who can copy Morse at about 10WMP will recognise the word being spelt out in this Kraftwork track:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXD6Gtinvbc&NR=1

Well then!!?

David,
G4EBT

John M0GLN · 10th Jan 2010, 2:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Station X

Films and TV dramas are full of historical inaccurracies, many of which are only noticed by "anoraks" like us. It shouldn't spoil our enjoyment of them though. If it does reach for the off switch or remote.

It can, depending on the program, enhance one's enjoyment, it was just that bit funnier to me watching 'Allo 'Allo, when René is shown setting up his clandestine transmitter kept under his mother in law's bed, it was actually an Avo All Wave Oscillator.

John

Lee de Forest · 10th Jan 2010, 2:58 pm

On a second viewing I think I may have been over critical. The set (see picture attached) may have been a remote speaker, I can not see a tuning dial but there are two knobs one of which is used as an on/off switch and volume control in the film. Was it feasable for hotels to have just the speakers in rooms in the 1940's supplied by a central amplifier?

ben · 10th Jan 2010, 3:49 pm

the use of technology, especially vintage, in films is almost always hilariously inauthentic. tape recorders/answer machines always work in cue and review, tvs emit loud static, records crackle loudly, pcs make silly beep tone when people type, etc etc.!

Darren-UK · 10th Jan 2010, 3:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee de Forest

Was it feasable for hotels to have just the speakers in rooms in the 1940's supplied by a central amplifier?

It certainly was feasible and did occur in large hotels, especially in the United States and also in London. They would've been wired systems, of course, not unlike the customers end of British Relay.

That 'speaker' doesn't look quite right somehow though. That sickly two-tone fretwork and those knobs (which, on blowing up the image, look too modern) in front of the grille rather than below or beside it. Maybe it's a prop.

Aerodyne · 10th Jan 2010, 5:02 pm

Some of us - well, OK, me for one - tend to get more enjoyment from watching out for and noting errors of all kinds in television programming and broadcast films than we get from the programmes themselves (typical examples: spotting the obvious model boat being sunk, how many Spitfires actually are used in any one shot - often no more than three unless they too are models - the mediocre back projection that was a favourite ploy of Hitchcock, DAC90A's as mentioned (a very common error) and 1946 cars in thirties-set productions.
Once an anorak, always an anorak, I guess.
-Tony

Michael Maurice · 10th Jan 2010, 5:39 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wireful3

Lee I think your reason is very sound.
It is easy to forget that individual shots in a film are only several seconds long. So the time taken for a set to warm up would seem like an eternity.

This is likely to be the biggest problem, unless of course the director can somehow get a few words squeezed in whilst the radio is warming up. Audiences don't appreciate ½ mins silence.

Lets face it those of us who are old enough to remember valved sets in their hey day will probably agree that you didn't sit around the set in silence waiting for it to warm up.

julie_m · 10th Jan 2010, 6:06 pm

And, whenever you see a DAC90A in a wartime programme, it's always playing "Run, Rabbit, Run". Was that the only record the BBC had in those days?

Paul Stenning · 10th Jan 2010, 6:22 pm

There is a DAC90 (or 90A) in the current Hovis advert with Churchill doing one of his famous wartime speeches. It is of course a post-war set.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4tFzuFGUOI at 59 seconds.

It is an impressive and emotive advert, running for over 2 minutes, so I think a few minor errors like this are forgiveable.

Paul Stenning · 10th Jan 2010, 6:23 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maurice

This is likely to be the biggest problem, unless of course the director can somehow get a few words squeezed in whilst the radio is warming up. Audiences don't appreciate ½ mins silence.

The best they could probably do is have it fade in over 5-10 seconds.

Peter.N. · 10th Jan 2010, 6:45 pm

Have you noticed how well the PMRs work in the heartbeat police vehicles - without an aerial!

kalee20 · 10th Jan 2010, 6:53 pm

There are often innaccuracies in films and TV. I do get mildly annoyed if an obviously mains radio starts working straight away after switch-on, just as I get annoyed if the reception is obviously worsened.

But if it's just a mild anachronism, such as the wrong model for the time, I just have a little chuckle. It doesn't spoil my enjoyment!

The General · 10th Jan 2010, 8:16 pm

Whenever someone starts an open reel tape recorder on TV or film, they never do so by pressing the play key, but always just click on the mains switch with the play key already down. And the sound appears instantly -even from a valve machine.
I find this sort of thing amusing -& usually make a comment regarding the film makers' (lack of) attention to detail...

Mark.

10th Jan 2010, 11:23 am	#1
Lee de Forest Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Harrogate, North Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 352	Historical accuracy in films I watched an very good film last night "Max Manus - Man of War" based on the true story of the leader of the 'Oslo Gang' resistance during WWII. One scene during the film is set in a Swedish hotel room and shows Max switching a radio on. The sound people then have music coming out of the radio the instant the switch is clicked on. I would have expected some time to allow the set to warm up! Does this indicate that people have forgot that it takes time for valve sets to warm up or was it done to allow the scene to flow better (it was a romantic moment and I think the ambiance might have been lost If Max had spent several minutes playing with the radio and waiting for it to warm up).

10th Jan 2010, 11:45 am	#2
Ricardo Pentode Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bedfordshire, UK. Posts: 211	Re: Historical accuracy in films Lee, I would probably agree with your comment about historical accuracy if the set was an AC powered set where the HT needs to rise and valves warm up. However if it was an early battery powered set then yes the sound output can happen almost immediately it is switched on. Regards, Richard

10th Jan 2010, 12:37 pm	#3
wireful3 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 808	Re: Historical accuracy in films Lee I think your reason is very sound. It is easy to forget that individual shots in a film are only several seconds long. So the time taken for a set to warm up would seem like an eternity. In the circumstances if the set is of the right period I suppose that must be good enough. I had a mains set from the mid 30s, advertised as being rapid warm up and this seemed quite slow to me but I never timed it - probably about half a minute - I have often wondered what was the accepted time in those days.

10th Jan 2010, 1:23 pm	#4
Peter.N. Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Charmouth, Dorset, UK. Posts: 3,601	Re: Historical accuracy in films Perhaps it was in 'standby'

10th Jan 2010, 1:24 pm	#5
chipp1968 Rest in Peace Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somerset, UK. Posts: 2,356	Re: Historical accuracy in films They always get sets wrong in films, mostly too modern for the period which irritates me no end! As said Battery sets come on straight away , but you would have thought at least a couple of seconds gap would give some impression in the film. I find sets differ greatly in warm up times , some come on very quickly others not. AC/DC sets seams to be the slowest

10th Jan 2010, 1:35 pm	#6
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,289	Re: Historical accuracy in films In the film version of Dad's Army members of the platoon go into a radio shop to listen to an announcement on the radio. The shop owner turns on a set and tells them that they must wait for it to warm up. Some films do get it right. Films and TV dramas are full of historical inaccurracies, many of which are only noticed by "anoraks" like us. It shouldn't spoil our enjoyment of them though. If it does reach for the off switch or remote. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

10th Jan 2010, 2:29 pm	#8
David G4EBT Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 5,766	Re: Historical accuracy in films There was a TV prog about WW2 recently which featured Chamberlain's prounouncement that we were at war with Germany. The family were listening intently, huddled around a Bush DAC90A, c 1948! The DAC90A and TR82D seem the favoured sets to use as props in films and TV progs, regardless of whether they'd been invented in the era depicted. In an episode of Heartbeat, the police were even using a Trio Shortwave Receiver to transmit on. Quite a feat - "calling all cars" No wonder Greegrass ran rings around them! Drifting off topic, but on a similat theme of lack of authenticity, it's the same with Morse code - often what is being heard or sent in war films and the like bears no resemblance to what the message purports to say. However, sometimes they get it right - anyone who can copy Morse at about 10WMP will recognise the word being spelt out in this Kraftwork track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXD6Gtinvbc&NR=1 Well then!!? David, G4EBT

10th Jan 2010, 2:58 pm	#10
Lee de Forest Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Harrogate, North Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 352	Re: Historical accuracy in films On a second viewing I think I may have been over critical. The set (see picture attached) may have been a remote speaker, I can not see a tuning dial but there are two knobs one of which is used as an on/off switch and volume control in the film. Was it feasable for hotels to have just the speakers in rooms in the 1940's supplied by a central amplifier? Attached Thumbnails

10th Jan 2010, 3:49 pm	#11
ben Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK Posts: 7,498	Re: Historical accuracy in films the use of technology, especially vintage, in films is almost always hilariously inauthentic. tape recorders/answer machines always work in cue and review, tvs emit loud static, records crackle loudly, pcs make silly beep tone when people type, etc etc.! __________________ Regards, Ben.

10th Jan 2010, 5:02 pm	#13
Aerodyne Octode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hampton Vale, Peterborough, UK. Posts: 1,698	Re: Historical accuracy in films Some of us - well, OK, me for one - tend to get more enjoyment from watching out for and noting errors of all kinds in television programming and broadcast films than we get from the programmes themselves (typical examples: spotting the obvious model boat being sunk, how many Spitfires actually are used in any one shot - often no more than three unless they too are models - the mediocre back projection that was a favourite ploy of Hitchcock, DAC90A's as mentioned (a very common error) and 1946 cars in thirties-set productions. Once an anorak, always an anorak, I guess. -Tony

10th Jan 2010, 6:06 pm	#15
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: Historical accuracy in films And, whenever you see a DAC90A in a wartime programme, it's always playing "Run, Rabbit, Run". Was that the only record the BBC had in those days? __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

10th Jan 2010, 6:22 pm	#16
Paul Stenning Administrator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Cardiff Posts: 9,073	Re: Historical accuracy in films There is a DAC90 (or 90A) in the current Hovis advert with Churchill doing one of his famous wartime speeches. It is of course a post-war set. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4tFzuFGUOI at 59 seconds. It is an impressive and emotive advert, running for over 2 minutes, so I think a few minor errors like this are forgiveable. __________________ Paul Stenning Forum Admin/Owner and BVWS Webmaster Last edited by Paul Stenning; 10th Jan 2010 at 6:29 pm. Reason: Added YouTube link

10th Jan 2010, 6:45 pm	#18
Peter.N. Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Charmouth, Dorset, UK. Posts: 3,601	Re: Historical accuracy in films Have you noticed how well the PMRs work in the heartbeat police vehicles - without an aerial!

10th Jan 2010, 6:53 pm	#19
kalee20 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lynton, N. Devon, UK. Posts: 7,088	Re: Historical accuracy in films There are often innaccuracies in films and TV. I do get mildly annoyed if an obviously mains radio starts working straight away after switch-on, just as I get annoyed if the reception is obviously worsened. But if it's just a mild anachronism, such as the wrong model for the time, I just have a little chuckle. It doesn't spoil my enjoyment!

10th Jan 2010, 8:16 pm	#20
The General Hexode Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK. Posts: 329	Re: Historical accuracy in films Whenever someone starts an open reel tape recorder on TV or film, they never do so by pressing the play key, but always just click on the mains switch with the play key already down. And the sound appears instantly -even from a valve machine. I find this sort of thing amusing -& usually make a comment regarding the film makers' (lack of) attention to detail... Mark.