Cassette Recorders

[Mike Brett]

I can understand why people recorded this way at the time, its all we had and I did the same, recorded straight of the mic along with all the background noise. Now-days though I never use my portable cassette players to record, I just use them for playback, when I am in the car or away from home. For recording I do what I expect others do, I use my high end hi fi system to record directly onto good quality tapes, I think it does give the machines and there tiny speakers a better chance of putting out a reasonable quality sound.
Mike

[camtechman]

Hi Mike,

Glad you're still hanging on in there with this thread, although it took a detour but that's the same as collecting, as is this case with cassette recorders, it can lead to delving more deeply into them than first intended.

See what you may be getting yourself into LOL.

One thing, as with collecting anything, one can always find diversity & deviation, my late Father would sit for hours studying his coin collection and would get exited when he found an "odd ball" detail in one of his coins.

But, back to cassette recorders and picking up a little on what's already been discused. Some times, all is not what it at first seems, take this example, here follows two photo of very similar cassette recorders, but by different manufacturers: the aforesaid: Akai TP736 (pic #1) & a Buccaneer TR100 (pic #2).On the face of it, the designs share a great similarity of style & look ? Yep....but that's where it ends.

Although I don't own an Akai TP736 (I've only got the circuit diagram) but I do own a Buccaneer TR100 (but no circuit diagram) and so, as a consquence of my comparing the Akai TP736 to the Sony TC-12 (as you will note on this thread), I decided to take a look at the inside of the Buccaneer TR100 (I hadn't done so before as it was in perfect working order when I first got it).

To my surprise, the inside was more like a cheap toy! Very crude & simple mechanics and the PCB & circuitry is just like the cheap (toy type) Mini Reel to Reel Rim Drive Tape Recorders of the early 1960's (pic #3). The type that used to be advertised in the back pages of the Saturday newspapers, one such shop was called: The Headquarters & General Stores Ltd of Cold Habour Lane, South London (later renamed as H&G). These sold for something like 8 Guineas and made a 15 year old boy (as I was then) drool at the mouth. But I repeat, they were cheap & simple and consumed batteries faster than my Sister with a bag of Toffee Popcorn.

To summarise, it's fun collecting, but you'll never know what journey it may take you on....LOL.

[emeritus]

I recall a columnist in the late 1960's in I think Amateur Photographer or Amateur Cine World, recounting his experience with an EL3302, which he had connected up to the sound system at the Odeon, Leicester Square and was amazed at the sound quality.

I think one facor in the use of a mike to record may be the lack of line outputs on UK equipment. I fitted a DIN socket to the back of my father's 1957 vintage RGD radiogram and connected it to the loudspeaker via a resistive attenuator. The radiogram output stage was a single valve operating in class A as I recall. Recordings from FM radio were good. I always used C120 tapes from reputable makers, and even recordings I made in 1969 have shown no trace of print-though.

When my 3302 died in the 1990's I looked for a replacement with manual volume controls to avoid the AGC problems, and the only ones I could find with manual volume control and AC bias were the two top Sony models, at around £200. I did eventually find a Sharp radio cassette with AC bias in a charity shop and had to put up with the AGC.

[suebutcher]

My fave "piano key shoe box" is the Philips N2221, which can make very good recordings when coupled with a decent microphone. No manual record level, but the auto-level is well designed, and mechanism is the same as the 3300 series. I suppose I'm attached to this one because it was my brother's and it was the first casstte recorder I got to play with. In the process of repairing it after years of abuse, it's become like "grandpa's axe". I'm sure the front panel is original, not sure about the other bits!

[ianj]

I used to connect mine to the family record player via a din lead and I could also play back through the record player though you could hear the hum and buzz of the cheap circuit.However.... It was 40 years ago and it was more than acceptable!

[camtechman]

Update.

Well, knock me down with a feather, the Aiwa TP736 is on Paul's DVD-ROM (should have looked there first) and it even shows the exploded diagram of the chassis as well as a part numbers list and those on the Sony TC-12 match up !

The exploded diagram even shows that crude red battery card ! (pics 1 & 2)

I've also ordered the Sony TC-12 Service Manual from the USA.

[Ekcoman]

I smuggled my ITT KB SL 55 into a concert of THE BAND at the Albert Hall in 1970. Made a half decent recording too until it got lost along with the recorder while at College. I guy doing a stereo recording a few rows in front got caught and thrown out but he was using bulky gear and two friends holding mics. Just managed to complete restoring an earlier ITT KB SL 50. The sound quality is so good for such a compact, now vintage machine from the late 1960s.

[Mike Brett]

Hi all
Just been looking at the specs. of two Marantz cassette recorders. It would seem that these recorders have a bit of a reputation for being well built sturdy machines. The first one, a Marantz Superscope CD-330 has a reassuringly healthy weight of 3.7 Kg. The second one I looked at though , a Marantz CP230 and only slightly smaller in size than the previous one, I was surprised to see it only weighed in at just 1.2 Kg. This is only just above the weight of my flimsy budget Realistic recorder. Maybe I should not judge a machine by its weight alone but I find its usually a good indication of build quality.
Mike

[dave walsh]

I remember being deeply unimpressed with the early machines. The ones I got my hands on [borrowed] seemed like fashion/novelty items to me but I was more domestic reel to reel orientated. These were fed from direct outputs re record player/radio and even Tv [done carefully through an isolation Tr]. I had thought that most portable early cassette units didn't have a proper line input [?] and overall, the relative cost, poor sound and lack of inputs [by comparison with say 4 track reel to reel] meant I couldn't begin to justify the outlay! Recording with a microphone was commonplace as mentioned but I suspect that the average purchaser for the portable cassette items would be even less likely to know that a direct input would improve quality or be able to rig something up but maybe I'm wrong on that one. I think it was definetely a matter of convenience rather than quality to the buyer.

Having said all this, I can see why they are are of great interest to early "pioneers" and new converts. I've mentioned before that I have a 1963 [pre dolby] Tape Recorder magazine confidently predicting that the compact cassette would never be able to reach Hi Fi standards. I got my first deck [Sony semi professional] in 1978 and their classic Walkman Portable Recorder [as used by the Beeb] in 82. Now that was a gear machine by comparison with its mono ancestors! I'd tried to urgently borrow an Akai 4000 R to R in the mid 70's and was offered a mono cassette portable instead-no way big disappointment at the time .

There is a classic Velvet Underground bootleg that made it onto official vinyl [Live At Max's Kansas city] noted for it's awfull sound quality but, in all fairness, I suspect that's the result of other factors eg over-recording via the mike rather than the format itself.

Dave W

[camtechman]

To conclude the previous discussion on the date of release of the Sony TC-12 (shown on some websites, including Sony's as 1971).

1) I have just received a mint condition Sony Service Manual date: 1969. Do Sony release such data on the date of introduction of the product or, like R&TS & ERT etc, one year after?

2) Every part listed in the Sony SM is identical to those listed in the Aiwa TP-736 service data.

The only remaining anomaly is why the parts that Sony usually date stamp, including the Flywheel is stamped 1964 ?

[Maarten]

Are you sure 46.8.6 is to be interpreted as 1964 (presumably 6.8.64?). Even though it seems quite plausible to me, in case of a discrepancy all evidence should be reviewed and reviewed again.

Even if the manual was released after market introduction, 5 years seems like a long time.

Another possibility is that Aiwa was sitting on quite a lot of old stock, that Sony only bought up and resold a few years later.

Are there any date codes on transistors and other non-mechanical parts?

[Steelemaneric]

I've just found this this little time capsule in my loft it looks like it has never been used. I've heard about the Philips belts and so called rubber bits so I don't expect it to be in working condition. I'll let you know how I get on when I've purchased the C cells required.
Eric

[PaulE27]

That's one of the very last ones. I bought one just like it, with the same box, in 1976.

The belts had turned to goo, but I replaced them a couple of years ago and now it works fine.

Paul

[camtechman]

Originally Posted by Steelemaneric

I'll let you know how I get on when I've purchased the C cells required.

You can also power it via the 5 pin DIN (270 deg) socket on the side, this will be detailed in the User Manual that I see in your photo.

Originally Posted by Maarten

Are there any date codes on transistors and other non-mechanical parts?

The only other item that has a stamped code is the Motor: 46.7.18 but I agree, it may not be conclusive but the mechanism is of the Philips 63/64 Chassis and for a 1969-1971 Sony model, an EL3302 Chassis would be more current.

I do agree that more research is needed to nail it down but that may be very hard, if not impossible to come by.

[Maarten]

Confirmation of the date code could be possible. You didn't say whether you had a look at the transistors yet, and whether they show any coding apart from the type numbers. If they don't it will be hard indeed.

[sp10mk11]

Steelemanerics little Philips EL machine is my favourite (as long as it has the clear lid), whenever I see EL3302 come up they always have a black plastic lid :-(
Have I got the correct model number?
Gary

[jamesperrett]

Originally Posted by sp10mk11

Have I got the correct model number?

Yes, I've had an EL3302 with a clear lid - in fact I might still have it somewhere although my lids tended to become separated from the machines.

[Steelemaneric]

Yes Gary it's definitely an EL3302 and yes it's got a clear lid. I acquired the batteries today but haven't had a chance to try it.
Eric

[camtechman]

Maarten,

Originally Posted by Maarten

You didn't say whether you had a look at the transistors yet, and whether they show any coding apart from the type numbers

The transistors are all Toshiba but the only thing I can see on them in the transistor number, e.g 2SB56 etc. I can't see any other markings and none of the capacitors have anything else apart from make & capacitance/voltage and most are SUN brand.

Tony

[Steelemaneric]

I've just made the acquaintance of the horrible Philips belt/tar. I thought I would have a look inside my EL3302 before trying it. What a mess, luckily they seem to have used a better material for the nip roller. I wondered what I could use to clean off the residue without damaging the roller?
Cheers,
Eric