Bakelite Scratches - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

alanworland · 2nd Jan 2013, 1:03 am

I have some sets which although have a good shine, have light surface scratches which T cut hasn't removed - it needs something more.
I was considering using fine wet & dry (wet) on a rubber pad to flat the surrounding area and remove the marks. Even going over the whole top/sides.
Something like 800/1000 grit, then T cut and polish/wax.
Am I likely to return the surface to a shine? or might I remove the surface and make it 'unpolishable'?
Dont want to ****** it up and make it worse!

Alan

mrmagnetophon · 2nd Jan 2013, 3:56 am

From my understanding it would never shine again, it would look very dull like cracked bakelite does, but iI may be wrong about it.
-Chris

Nickthedentist · 2nd Jan 2013, 9:46 am

I suspect disguising them with wax might be the answer.

Nick.

ekcobeach · 2nd Jan 2013, 10:39 am

Hi Alan,

I have often used your suggested approach to removing scratches. I can say with very good results and no loss of shine to the bakelite. For deeper scratches I've used heavier grade paper and then a series of lighter grades. It does of course take a bit of elbow grease after using wet and dry but I've noticed no ill effects to the finish.

Using a polishing mop/wheel will obviously speed up the process. If you are still unsure try doing a test on the bottom of the radio. As I understand it, bakelite is the same all the way through. So it's all down to how much time and effort you want to put in. If you have been to shows like the NVCF you would probably have seen several DAC90/90A radios with an unbelievable finish and shine. No doubt achieved with the aid of a polishing mop.

Colin.

Radio Wrangler · 2nd Jan 2013, 12:58 pm

Polishing mops can leave swirl marks unless reserved for only the finest abrasives.

When using fine abrasive paper, use it wet, rub on a little soap. It's an old trick and it acts as a wetting agent and makes things easier.

'Rubbing Compound' is available from car paint distributors in a few grades and it's appreciably more abrasive than T-cut. T-cut is designed to be slow so enthusiastic amateurs don't go through the colour layer on their cars.

Fine papers up to 600. 800, 1200 grit, then medium rubbing compound, fine compound, then brasso to finish off was my usual sequence for coach-finishing. (The family business was in this field) The difficulty with Brasso was getting the oil residue off.

I'm not sure about bakelite, it may depend about what's been added into its mix as a filler. I expect that the phenol-formaldehyde compound would wet the mould, and the filler particles would not be directly exposed. Cut too deep and you may run into particles too soft to ever take a polish. The other moulding material of this era was 'Beetle' which was a similar urea-formaldehyde compound.... I suspect urea is cheaper than phenol

and I was a bit unhappy when I found out what the salt cellars in the school diining hall were made of...

David

alanworland · 3rd Jan 2013, 12:33 am

Thanks for the info - I think I might have a go on a damaged cabinet and see how I get on!
Having sprayed my Morris Minor with varying degrees of finish I flatted it all back with wet & dry followed by cutting compounds and polish to a good finish.
I was just a bit concerned about ths bakelite having a skin of harder material and exposing something that might be unpolishable.

Alan

alanworland · 3rd Jan 2013, 11:13 pm

Popped up the loft and retrieved an old Philips set from my to do list, which showed several deepish scratches - the sort that wont T Cut out.
With 800 grit wet & dry used wet on a 1/4 thick rubbing pad. It cut quite freely reducing the surface to include the removal of the scratches, didn't take long at all.
Then used 1500 grit, wet on the pad again to remove the 800 grit marks which left a really smooth surface.
Out came the T Cut which was used on a cotton cloth pad in a circular motion then in a straight line, then at 90 degrees to the previous line, used quite firmly which left a good surface.
Out with the Simoniz wax polish rubbed on vigorously the buffed off.
Brilliant! Highly recommended method which I have now applied to my latest project to very good effect!

Alan

crackle · 21st Jan 2013, 12:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanworland

I was just a bit concerned about ths bakelite having a skin of harder material and exposing something that might be unpolishable.Alan

Hi Alan
I have had this sort of problem with some early "plastic" sets, I polished a scratch out with w&d but could not get a shine back.
I have also found Bakelite is OK to cut back.
Mike

21st Jan 2013, 6:27 pm

I keep promising to take my A22 case to the local 'body shop' and see how shiny they can get it.

alanworland · 21st Jan 2013, 9:20 pm

Just done another today, a Murphy A474, came up a treat although I can see (now its all shiny) some very small marks still present although I think I will leave them as it adds to 'the petina'!
Love these old Murphy's, nice big speaker, looking forward to getting it going.

Alan

G3JZF_John · 3rd Feb 2013, 12:50 pm

I have used "spit and polish" -literally- to good effect on my Bush TV36.
I learnt the technique from my RAF days.

Spit on a duster and use it to apply boot polish. Wait a minute or so, polish using a clean duster and repeat -and repeat - and repeat. If you get a matching poish it fills light scratches well.
John

HamishBoxer · 3rd Feb 2013, 10:06 pm

Bakobright from Chas E Miller (Radiophile) or Paste polishing No 5

Ekcoman · 4th Feb 2013, 8:48 am

Brasso or other liquid metal polishes work a treat. Also great on fine scratches on perspex covers. Its a very, very gentle so no fear of harm but lots of elbow grease required.

tikiwagon · 11th Apr 2013, 9:54 pm

I have always had luck with Brasso on Bakelite stuff.

Andy Day · 14th Apr 2013, 8:48 pm

Cut the scratches back with fine wet and dry, I use worn out 600 grit, stuff left over from finishing sheet metal parts. Always sand wet with a squirt of washing up liquid in the water to act as lubricant and remove grease. Then using fine cut buffing soap to polish it on the buffing wheel, but don't press so hard as to raise the temperature and burn it. Use a loose woven mop so as not to localise the polishing action. Finish off with Harrels traditional wax polish applied by hand and plenty of elbow grease. I've never found a 'sub-layer' that can't be polished on true Bakelite. The same may not be true of some other injection moulded plastics that may superficially look like Bakelite/
.

2nd Jan 2013, 1:03 am	#1
alanworland Heptode Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Southend, Essex, UK. Posts: 803	Bakelite Scratches I have some sets which although have a good shine, have light surface scratches which T cut hasn't removed - it needs something more. I was considering using fine wet & dry (wet) on a rubber pad to flat the surrounding area and remove the marks. Even going over the whole top/sides. Something like 800/1000 grit, then T cut and polish/wax. Am I likely to return the surface to a shine? or might I remove the surface and make it 'unpolishable'? Dont want to ****** it up and make it worse! Alan

2nd Jan 2013, 3:56 am	#2
mrmagnetophon Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Ohio, USA. Posts: 757	Re: Bakelite Scratches From my understanding it would never shine again, it would look very dull like cracked bakelite does, but iI may be wrong about it. -Chris

2nd Jan 2013, 9:46 am	#3
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,865	Re: Bakelite Scratches I suspect disguising them with wax might be the answer. Nick.

2nd Jan 2013, 10:39 am	#4
ekcobeach Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wilmington, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 230	Re: Bakelite Scratches Hi Alan, I have often used your suggested approach to removing scratches. I can say with very good results and no loss of shine to the bakelite. For deeper scratches I've used heavier grade paper and then a series of lighter grades. It does of course take a bit of elbow grease after using wet and dry but I've noticed no ill effects to the finish. Using a polishing mop/wheel will obviously speed up the process. If you are still unsure try doing a test on the bottom of the radio. As I understand it, bakelite is the same all the way through. So it's all down to how much time and effort you want to put in. If you have been to shows like the NVCF you would probably have seen several DAC90/90A radios with an unbelievable finish and shine. No doubt achieved with the aid of a polishing mop. Colin.

2nd Jan 2013, 12:58 pm	#5
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,902	Re: Bakelite Scratches Polishing mops can leave swirl marks unless reserved for only the finest abrasives. When using fine abrasive paper, use it wet, rub on a little soap. It's an old trick and it acts as a wetting agent and makes things easier. 'Rubbing Compound' is available from car paint distributors in a few grades and it's appreciably more abrasive than T-cut. T-cut is designed to be slow so enthusiastic amateurs don't go through the colour layer on their cars. Fine papers up to 600. 800, 1200 grit, then medium rubbing compound, fine compound, then brasso to finish off was my usual sequence for coach-finishing. (The family business was in this field) The difficulty with Brasso was getting the oil residue off. I'm not sure about bakelite, it may depend about what's been added into its mix as a filler. I expect that the phenol-formaldehyde compound would wet the mould, and the filler particles would not be directly exposed. Cut too deep and you may run into particles too soft to ever take a polish. The other moulding material of this era was 'Beetle' which was a similar urea-formaldehyde compound.... I suspect urea is cheaper than phenol and I was a bit unhappy when I found out what the salt cellars in the school diining hall were made of... David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

3rd Jan 2013, 12:33 am	#6
alanworland Heptode Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Southend, Essex, UK. Posts: 803	Re: Bakelite Scratches Thanks for the info - I think I might have a go on a damaged cabinet and see how I get on! Having sprayed my Morris Minor with varying degrees of finish I flatted it all back with wet & dry followed by cutting compounds and polish to a good finish. I was just a bit concerned about ths bakelite having a skin of harder material and exposing something that might be unpolishable. Alan

3rd Jan 2013, 11:13 pm	#7
alanworland Heptode Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Southend, Essex, UK. Posts: 803	Re: Bakelite Scratches Popped up the loft and retrieved an old Philips set from my to do list, which showed several deepish scratches - the sort that wont T Cut out. With 800 grit wet & dry used wet on a 1/4 thick rubbing pad. It cut quite freely reducing the surface to include the removal of the scratches, didn't take long at all. Then used 1500 grit, wet on the pad again to remove the 800 grit marks which left a really smooth surface. Out came the T Cut which was used on a cotton cloth pad in a circular motion then in a straight line, then at 90 degrees to the previous line, used quite firmly which left a good surface. Out with the Simoniz wax polish rubbed on vigorously the buffed off. Brilliant! Highly recommended method which I have now applied to my latest project to very good effect! Alan

21st Jan 2013, 6:27 pm	#9
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Bakelite Scratches I keep promising to take my A22 case to the local 'body shop' and see how shiny they can get it.

21st Jan 2013, 9:20 pm	#10
alanworland Heptode Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Southend, Essex, UK. Posts: 803	Re: Bakelite Scratches Just done another today, a Murphy A474, came up a treat although I can see (now its all shiny) some very small marks still present although I think I will leave them as it adds to 'the petina'! Love these old Murphy's, nice big speaker, looking forward to getting it going. Alan

3rd Feb 2013, 12:50 pm	#11
G3JZF_John Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, Uk. Posts: 78	Re: Bakelite Scratches I have used "spit and polish" -literally- to good effect on my Bush TV36. I learnt the technique from my RAF days. Spit on a duster and use it to apply boot polish. Wait a minute or so, polish using a clean duster and repeat -and repeat - and repeat. If you get a matching poish it fills light scratches well. John

3rd Feb 2013, 10:06 pm	#12
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 8,935	Re: Bakelite Scratches Bakobright from Chas E Miller (Radiophile) or Paste polishing No 5 __________________ G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S

4th Feb 2013, 8:48 am	#13
Ekcoman Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southend, Essex, UK Posts: 663	Re: Bakelite Scratches Brasso or other liquid metal polishes work a treat. Also great on fine scratches on perspex covers. Its a very, very gentle so no fear of harm but lots of elbow grease required. __________________ "I really am seriously downsizing "

11th Apr 2013, 9:54 pm	#14
tikiwagon Triode Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Poole Posts: 13	Re: Bakelite Scratches I have always had luck with Brasso on Bakelite stuff.

14th Apr 2013, 8:48 pm	#15
Andy Day Pentode Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 154	Re: Bakelite Scratches Cut the scratches back with fine wet and dry, I use worn out 600 grit, stuff left over from finishing sheet metal parts. Always sand wet with a squirt of washing up liquid in the water to act as lubricant and remove grease. Then using fine cut buffing soap to polish it on the buffing wheel, but don't press so hard as to raise the temperature and burn it. Use a loose woven mop so as not to localise the polishing action. Finish off with Harrels traditional wax polish applied by hand and plenty of elbow grease. I've never found a 'sub-layer' that can't be polished on true Bakelite. The same may not be true of some other injection moulded plastics that may superficially look like Bakelite/ . __________________ The older I get, the faster I was!